Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Sin and the Flesh, How are they related? | NT general Archive 1 | Lionstrong | 14502 | ||
Sin and the Flesh Do our present corrupted mortal bodies in any way influence us to sin? How? What is the relationship between our mortal bodies and indwelling sin? What generated this question is that sometimes I have to be careful about what I do or say when I’m tired, and I suspect that sometimes my feelings of depression are brought on by an occasional lack of physical well-being. But is there more to it than that? Sin is spiritual, not physical. It is internal. It originates from a corrupted heart (not emotions, but intellect). Now, Paul and others use the word translated “flesh” in several senses, sometimes to mean person, sometimes to mean body, etc., but it’s curious how they sometimes uses the word to mean something sinful. If I had to pick a word or phrase to substitute for this negative meaning I would choose “fallen human nature,” although sometimes it only fits awkwardly into a sentence. But the apostolic writers inspired by the Holy Spirit chose this word, curiously enough. Could they not have chosen another? Our present bodies will not make it to glory (1 Cor. 15). They will be planted like a seed when we depart to be with the Lord. And the dissimilarity between the body that is planted and the glorious one that will be resurrected will be like that of a seed and the plant that grows from it. So do the Apostles, that is, the Holy Spirit through the Apostles, use the word flesh because there’s more to our mortal body than flesh and blood? |
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2 | Sin and the Flesh, How are they related? | NT general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 14518 | ||
Lionstrong, Remember that the English is not inspired, the original is. Even so, the Gospel writers use different words to describe the same scene. Mark 1:40, uses the word gonupeteo, while Matthew 8:2 uses proskuneo. This is where a leper asks to be made clean. Using the NASB, I see the flesh and sin can be related, in Romans 7 -For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions (vs. 5) -For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin (vs. 14) -For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not (vs. 18) - Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin (vs. 25). Romans 8:3 says, For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh … then Paul continues to compare the fleas with the Spirit. Steve |
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3 | Sin and the Flesh, How are they related? | NT general Archive 1 | Lionstrong | 14565 | ||
Dear Steve, What? It seems that your main point is that flesh and sin can be related. This point, however, is already assumed in my question. So, your comments leave my question unanswered. Thanks for you response, though. For whom in the forum has this been a question, and would you care to share your thoughts? One point of clarification: the Greek word translated "flesh" that I'm talking about is "sarx." Peace, Lionstrong |
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4 | Sin and the Flesh, How are they related? | NT general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 14567 | ||
Lionstrong, I am sorry I did not answer your question as you wanted. Let me try again. Do our present corrupted mortal bodies in any way influence us to sin? How? … Yes, we offered them to slavery (Rom 6:19), the sinful passions are in our flesh/ body (7:5), nothing good dwells in my flesh (7:18), my flesh serves the law of sin (7;25) … What is the relationship between our mortal bodies and indwelling sin? … I already stated this. What generated this question is that sometimes I have to be careful about what I do or say when I'm tired, and I suspect that sometimes my feelings of depression are brought on by an occasional lack of physical well-being. But is there more to it than that? … Paul struggled with this (Rom 7:14ff) So do the Apostles, that is, the Holy Spirit through the Apostles, use the word flesh because there's more to our mortal body than flesh and blood? … The word sarx was used in Mat 16:17, flesh and blood are not the same. Steve |
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5 | Sin and the Flesh, How are they related? | NT general Archive 1 | Lionstrong | 14576 | ||
Dear Steve, Thanks for your response. As I wrote in the question at hand, the meaning of the word flesh sometimes means “person,” “natural decent,” “body,” etc. Sometimes the meaning of the word flesh has nothing to do with anything physical, but spiritual, as in some cases it seems to mean “fallen human nature” or “old self.” For example, you site some passages in the latter half of Rom 7. Here it seem to me that Paul is not talking about sin indwelling his physical body, as you wrote, but rather that sin indwells his old self, his fallen human nature. Even though, Steve, you may not agree with how I define “flesh” in the latter half of Rom. 7, would you agree that the word flesh does not always mean something physical? I wrote, “Do our present corrupted mortal bodies in any way influence us to sin? How?” You answered, “Yes, we offered them to slavery (Rom 6:19), the sinful passions are in our flesh/ body (7:5), nothing good dwells in my flesh (7:18), my flesh serves the law of sin (7;25)” We offering our bodies over to slavery to sin (Rom. 6:19) is not an example of our bodies influencing us to sin. At least, I see us offering our bodies, not our bodies influencing us to offer our bodies to sin. Again in 7:5, it’s the sinful passions that are a work in our body, not our body influencing us. This verse shows a relationship of sin and the body, but not the body influencing. And 7:25 is a case of where I think the word flesh here does not mean body but the old fallen human nature, or the old man. Rom 7:25 "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin." If the word meant body, then everything Paul was doing with his body was in service to the law of sin. Rather, it was his old self, his fallen human nature inherited from Adam that was always in service to the law of sin. Now, there may be Scripture that talks about how our mortal body influences us, and that’s what I’d like some input on, but I think that the references you gave, Steve, do not. I wrote, “What generated this question is that sometimes I have to be careful about what I do or say when I'm tired, and I suspect that sometimes my feelings of depression are brought on by an occasional lack of physical well-being. But is there more to it than that?” To which you responded: “… Paul struggled with this (Rom 7:14ff)” Here, Steve, we are not in agreement on what this passage is about. I see it as having nothing to do with sin and Paul’s physical flesh, but rather the struggle with his “flesh,” that is, his old fallen human nature where the law of sin ruled. Paul makes a shorter statement of this struggle in Gal. 5:17. “For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.” Now, the verse that you referenced, Rom 7:18 says, “For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.” If Paul were saying that nothing good dwelt in his body he was wrong, because if any man be in Christ Jesus, he is a new creation. (2 Cor. 5:17) And the new creation is good. Therefore there was something good in Paul’s body. It is the redeemed Paul himself! So, Paul must mean the old self in which nothing good dwells, not his physical body. I wrote, “So do the Apostles, that is, the Holy Spirit through the Apostles, use the word flesh because there's more to our mortal body than flesh and blood?” To which you responded: “… The word sarx was used in Mat 16:17, flesh and blood are not the same. “ “Flesh and blood” was my attempt at a literary flourish. :-) I’m not sure what you meant by your response. Thanks, again, Steve. Peace, Lionstrong |
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6 | Sin and the Flesh, How are they related? | NT general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 14605 | ||
Lionstrong, I was taking your “flesh and blood” literally. I was showing that flesh and blood are not the same. Steve | ||||||