Results 1 - 12 of 12
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | Radioman2 | 94650 | ||
Is there a pretribulation rapture? 'Pretribulationalism 'This view was first known as "the secret" or "any moment rapture." It is a relatively new position which was first taught by the founder of the Catholic Apostolic Church, Edward Irving, in the late 1820's. It was then picked up by Plymouth Brethren pastor John Nelson Darby, and he first preached on it in 1843. It came to America in the late 1800's . . . 'Pretribulationists teach that the return of Christ has been imminent since the days of the early church and that the church will be raptured sometime before the seventieth week begins. Although they have no Scripture that in so many words teaches it, they teach that there are no signs and the rapture could take place at any moment. The seventieth week of Daniel is therefore considered to be a seven-year period of God's judgmental "tribulation" (hence the term pretribulation). This position generally views the seventieth week as the day of the Lord's wrath from which the church is excluded.' 'Prewrath 'The Prewrath position teaches that the true church will be raptured when the great tribulation by Antichrist, inspired by Satan, is cut short by God's day-of-the-Lord wrath, which will occur between the sixth and seventh seals of Revelation, sometime during the second half of the seventieth week. The persecution associated with the great tribulation of Antichrist is viewed as the wrath of Satan, whereas the events that follow, beginning with the seventh seal, are considered the wrath of God. There is another term that is sometimes expressed, "historical premillennialism," which refers back to the teaching of the early church fathers before 325 A.D. who believed that the church would face the persecution of Antichrist and Christ would then reign for 1000 years upon the earth. With the exception of two, Origen and Clement of Alexandria, who were allegorist, they all taught this view. Prewrath is plainly and simply an expansion of this view which was biblical then and biblical now.' (www.solagroup.org/) --Radioman2 |
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2 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | DarcyA | 94663 | ||
Pretrib View Proof #1: Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection. The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that in Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, there is no mention of a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming. Proof #2: Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn't mention a resurrection. This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the second coming. Again, no mention of a resurrection. Proof #3: Two different pictures are painted. In the Old Testament, there were two different pictures painted of the Messiah—one suffering (Isa. 53:2-10, Ps. 22:6-8, 11-18) and one reigning as King (Ps. 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9,16). As we look back on these scriptures, we see they predicted two separate comings of the Messiah—the 1st coming as a suffering Messiah and the 2nd coming (still future) as a reigning King. In the New Testament, we have another picture added. Again, we have two pictures painted which don’t look the same. These two different descriptions of Jesus’ coming point to two separate events we call "the rapture" and "the second coming." Proof #4: The Known Day and the Unknown Day Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we can't know and a day we can know. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 says the Jews will have to wait 1,260 days for the Lord to return. The 1,260 days begins when the Antichrist stands in the Temple and declares himself to be God (Matt. 24:15-21, 2 Thess. 2:4) This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven year Tribulation (Dan 9:27). The Antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1,260 days (Rev. 13:4) and will be destroyed by Jesus at His second coming (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8). The known and unknown days must happen at different times, meaning they are two separate events. Proof #5: The 24 elders have their crowns. After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the rapture (2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4). We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:14). The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place. Proof #6 Holy ones are already with Jesus in heaven (Zech. 14:5, Rev. 19:14) The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, follow Jesus out of heaven at His second coming (Rev. 19:14, Zech. 14:5, Col. 3:4). These are not angels because Rev. 19:8 tells us the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. In order to come out of heaven we first have to go in, indicating a previous rapture. |
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3 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | DarcyA | 94664 | ||
Proof #7: Kept from the hour of testing (Rev. 3:10) Revelation 3:10 says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). Some have wrongly believed "keep" means to keep through, or protect through the Tribulation. Suppose you approach a high voltage area with a sign that says, "Keep Out." Does that mean you can enter and be protected? No, it means you are forbidden from entering the area. But this verse also says He will keep us from the hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but the time period. If a student is excused from a test, he still may have to sit in the class while others take the test. But if he is excused from the hour of testing, he can go home. The Church will be called home before the hour of testing. Proof #8: Angels don't resurrect people when they gather them for judgment. When the angels are sent forth to gather the elect at the second coming (Matt. 24:29-31), some have wrongly interpreted this as the rapture. There is one huge problem with this interpretation. If we are resurrected at this time, why would we need angels to gather us? In the resurrection, we will be like the angels (Matt. 22:30), able to travel in the air at will. Obviously, these people who are gathered are not resurrected, therefore it can't be the rapture. No one would claim the wicked are raptured at this time, yet Matthew 13:39-41, 49 says the angels will not only gather the elect, but also the wicked. This gathering is not a resurrection. Proof #9: Both wicked and righteous both can't be taken first. First Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Matthew 13:30, 49 says the wicked are taken first and righteous are left behind. This points to two separate events, the rapture and the second coming. Proof #10: Jesus returns from the wedding. When Jesus returns to earth at the second coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the rapture, Jesus is married to His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth. Proof #11: Jesus will receive us to Himself, not us to receive Him (John 14:2-3). Jesus said He would prepare a place for the Church in heaven, then He would come again to receive us to Himself. Why would Jesus prepare a place for us in heaven and then not take us there? At the rapture, He will come to receive us to Himself, "that where I am (heaven), there you may be also." If the rapture occurred at the same time as the second coming, we would go up to the clouds and then immediately come back to earth. That would contradict John 14:2-3. |
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4 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | Radioman2 | 94671 | ||
DOES PRETRIB HAVE SOLID SCRIPTURAL BASIS? 'Second, pretribulationism has no clear biblical basis of support, only problem passages such as 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 (which is ignored) and Matthew 24:15-31 (which is ascribed to unsaved Israel). By comparison, the prewrath position can be clearly argued from the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, and the Book of Revelation, with absolute consistency and no contradictions, letting the student of God's Word compare Scripture with Scripture without fear of contradiction, finding instead perfect harmony in all that is recorded in the New Testament.' To read more go to: (http://www.solagroup.org/articles/endtimes/et_0006.html) |
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5 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | DarcyA | 94672 | ||
Still waiting for you to reply to my posts...Also I can settle the 2 Thess with a pretrib view as whoever you are getting your information from falsely states the pretrib view can't. But I would like my other refernces talked about before I go any farther on the pretrib view. Which hasn't been done yet. | ||||||
6 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | Radioman2 | 94675 | ||
DarcyA writes: "Still waiting for you to reply to my posts...Also I can settle the 2 Thess with a pretrib view as whoever you are getting your information from falsely states the pretrib view can't. But I would like my other refernces talked about before I go any farther on the pretrib view. Which hasn't been done yet." ____________________ No, it hasn't been done yet. And it isn't going to be done. Not by me -- not now and not later. I'm not here to engage in endless debate or to try to win arguments. For further information on the pretrib question, go to (www.solagroup.org/). --Radioman2 |
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7 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | DarcyA | 94677 | ||
I'm not here to debate niether I said Talked about. I have biblical support which I posted and then you post that there is no support of someones web sight. | ||||||
8 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | Radioman2 | 94681 | ||
Please tell me the post ID# and the exact words I used when I allegedly said, "there is no support of someones web sight." I don't remember saying "there is no support of someones web sight." What web site are you referring to? --Radioman2 |
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9 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | DarcyA | 94684 | ||
Radioman: Your Quote from that web site your quoting from: 'Second, pretribulationism has no clear biblical basis of support. PS I don't know how to find the ID numbers :) |
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10 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | Radioman2 | 94685 | ||
DarcyA: Thank you for clearing that up. I appreciate it. Sincerely, Radioman2 |
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11 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | DarcyA | 94687 | ||
I'm sorry I kind of worded it wrong. I was busy going through all my rapture notes at the time I wrote that. When it comes to the rapture it doesn't really matter if you believe pre, mid, post or don't believe in the rapture at all. Cause we are all going up in the first load. I have debated all three views publically but I do personally hold the pretrib view. With that view I try to live everyday as if this might be the day. Gold bless you. |
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12 | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | NT general Archive 1 | Radioman2 | 94688 | ||
DarcyA: On most points you and I and others probably agree on the teaching of the rapture -- that it is real, it is yet future, and is defined as that event when "...the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV)) I think we would both agree with this definition of what the rapture is. The only point of disagreement seems to be the timing of the rapture. And as someone has said, as far as when the rapture will occur, "It's time to get off the program committee and get on the welcoming committee." :-) Grace and peace to you, Radioman2 |
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