Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Proselyte to Judaism as means of salv. | OT general | SpreadWord | 3764 | ||
Salvation is a New Testament concept. Christ's salvation is the answer to man's inability to keep the law imposed upon the Old Testament believer. While Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, God has operated under different covenants during different periods of time. There are those with Bible degrees that can probably expound on this better than me, but I would break the different covenants down into these phases: 1) Adamic covenant: (Genesis 3:8) Adam walked and talked with God freely until Adam sinned and broke the covenant. 2) Noah covenant: (Genesis 6:9, 6:18, 9:11) Noah walked with God. He was a just man in an evil world, so God protected him and his family from the flood. Noah offered burnt offerings to the Lord. (Genesis 8:20) God gave Noah rules that he shall not eat flesh with its blood. Also, God established the death penalty for murder. (Genesis 9:6) 3) Abrahamic Covenant: (Genesis 12:1-3) God sovereignly chose Abraham as the lineage that would ultimately be the lineage of Jesus, God's only Son. Abraham first instituted the tithe to Melchizedek. I note this because the tithe preceeds the "law" and should not be included as "being under the law" when admonished to tithe. God began to add other Abrahamic laws such as circumcision. Abraham continues the sacrifice of animals first instituted by Abel (Genesis 4:4) 4) Mosaic Covenant: God instituted the law beginning with the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17). The Levitical law came into being under the covenant established with Moses. This covenant continued until.... 5) Christ's Covenant: (Hebrews 8:6-13) After man had been shown that he was incapable of keeping the law, and that the sacrifice of animals could never redeem sins, it took the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, followed by His glorious resurrection, to redeem us from sin and to conquer death, hell, and the grave. So...to answer your question..."salvation" is through Christ alone (Acts 4:12), but for those who lived before the New Covenant, they were required to join God in the covenant He had established at the time. Hope this helps.... |
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2 | Proselyte to Judaism as means of salv. | OT general | reformedreader | 3846 | ||
SpreadWord, I disagree with your view of salvation and so does scripture when you stated "Salvation is a New Testament concept". Salvation has never been a "concept" and nowhere does scripture teach so. Salvation has and always will be a "reality" and "actual" even in the Old Testament (and prior). The change of covenants has never influenced the definition of salvation. Salvation has always been and always will be entirely by the mercy and grace of God (Eph. 2:8). Man has never been able to obey in perfection the laws of God, starting with Adam and leading up to you and I and forward to the last human. The laws of God found in any covenant have never been the mode of salvation under any circumstances. Your statement, "Christ's salvation is the answer to man's inability to keep the law imposed upon the Old Testament believer" is very misleading. Salvation is not just merely the answer to enable man to obey God's laws for even the believer still disobeys those same laws. God's laws are designed to teach us about Himself and His righteous demands for "ALL" men to live by, not only the believer. The covenants are an expanding revelation of God, His will, His laws, His Son, His righteousness and our sinfulness. One covenant is built upon another but never does one displace another. There is both continuity and discontinuity within each covenant as well as among all covenants. The discontinuity is found within the specific framework of each and all successive covenants but never does one covenant supercede or contradict another since all are God's will for man. Your statement,"While Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, God has operated under different covenants during different periods of time" seems to force the Father and the Son to be on different sides of the same will and in opposing directions. Nonething could be further from truth. The Father, the Son and the Spirit are always in perfect harmoniuous agreement. Could you show the scripture that states any differently? And to your statement, "salvation" is through Christ alone (Acts 4:12), but for those who lived before the New Covenant, they were required to join God in the covenant He had established at the time" is not only unbiblical, it is anti-biblical. Absolutely nothing in the whole of scripture agrees with you and this is very dangerous advice to give to people. The very verse you used to justify your view actually refutes your view. Acts 4:12 clearly states that salvation is found in nothing, nowhere and nobody but Christ alone. So, if there was salvation prior to the New Testament (and there most certainly was) then their salvation was strictly according to Acts 4:12. Sam Hughey |
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3 | Proselyte to Judaism as means of salv. | OT general | SpreadWord | 39893 | ||
Mr. Hughey, Your post is confusing. How could an Old Testament believer believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, when He had not yet been sent by the Father? If, as you say, that salvation was available prior to Christ's physical coming, and if you say that it has always been by grace, then why in the world were the Old Testament believers required to sacrifice animals, and New Testament believers are not required to? I maintain that the scripture is clear that a works-based system was in place before the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. I will agree with you that noone was able to live up to this works-based salvation. That is precisely the reason Christ came and paid the final sacrifice for our sin. The reality of this allowed Paul to write Ephesians 2:8-9. One example of Jesus "changing the rules" so to speak and actually getting stricter is Matthew 5:27-28 when he speaks of adultery and that now if a man even lusts after a woman, he has committed adultery with her already in his heart. In my original text, I said nothing to indicate disunity between the three persons of the Godhead. Jesus, while on Earth, repeatedly stated that he could/would do nothing outside the will of the Father. I suspect we have distinct doctrinal differences, and I will allow the Holy Spirit to be my rear guard against statements that I am "unbiblical" or "anti-biblical." I gave several scriptures in my original message. I love His Word, and I will glean what I can from any believer. I will try to see their point of view, because I do make mistakes, and Proverbs is full of exhortations to learn from others. However, I do not believe I am giving bad advice to people because the advice I give is based solidly on scripture. In Him, Mike Southerland |
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