Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Getting the verdict before the judgment? | Bible general Archive 1 | Mathew | 84204 | ||
Emmaus, I'm sorry if I came across to bold or arrogant for that matter. I beleive on precept upon precept,line upon line and no private interpretation. If we dissagree its becuse one of us just hasn't had enough evidence of scripture yet. Not because one of us has a revalation no one else has..lol The Bible says that everyone has the mind of Christ...so how can anyone be a teacher? I'm just trying reveal some things I feel I've learned through studying and not some profound revelation. All the people in heaven in the book of Revaltion are the people who were ressurected with Christ when he rose from the dead. The account states that others were ressurected with Christ....But note this was not a global ressurection. So not all Christians went to heaven at this time. |
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2 | Getting the verdict before the judgment? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 84206 | ||
Matthew, So, as you see it, the Old Testament dead are alive in Christ and in heaven, but the New Testament martyrs and saints are dead in the ground and not alive in Christ in heaven? Are these really ideas drawn from your own personal study or have you learned anything from other sources that any of the rest of us on this forum might recognize? your ideas are out of sync with 2,000 years of Christian understanding of the Gospel and Scripture. Emmaus |
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3 | Getting the verdict before the judgment? | Bible general Archive 1 | Mathew | 84217 | ||
Emmaus, I don't beleive that all old testament saints are in heaven. Only those from Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and MANY bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Notice that is doesn't say ALL the saints. I beleive that these could also be the 24 elders you see in Revelations. The Bible does not teach of an immortal soul that lives without the body. Paul speaks of being clothed with two kinds of houses. That which is earthly, and that which is heavenly. To be naked or unclothed is death. Paul knew it, and I know it. There is no inbetween according to Paul and the rest of the Bible. This is not new doctrine. I used to think that we went to heaven or hell as soon as we died...before i actually studied it for myself. If you don't agree with me thats fine but I enjoy your questions and comments so keep them coming. 1Thess. 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. |
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4 | Getting the verdict before the judgment? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 84218 | ||
Matthew, "This is not new doctrine. I used to think that we went to heaven or hell as soon as we died...before i actually studied it for myself." Keep studying. I don't think you have it all figured out yet. Revelation, chapter 7 1: After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2: Then I saw another angel ascend from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 3: saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God upon their foreheads." 4: And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel, 5: twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand of the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand of the tribe of Gad, 6: twelve thousand of the tribe of Asher, twelve thousand of the tribe of Naph'tali, twelve thousand of the tribe of Manas'seh, 7: twelve thousand of the tribe of Simeon, twelve thousand of the tribe of Levi, twelve thousand of the tribe of Is'sachar, 8: twelve thousand of the tribe of Zeb'ulun, twelve thousand of the tribe of Joseph, twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Benjamin. 9: After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10: and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!" 11: And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12: saying, "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for ever and ever! Amen." 13: Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, and whence have they come?" 14: I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15: Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night within his temple; and he who sits upon the throne will shelter them with his presence. 16: They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; the sun shall not strike them, nor any scorching heat. 17: For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water; and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." Emmaus |
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5 | Getting the verdict before the judgment? | Bible general Archive 1 | Mathew | 84220 | ||
Emmaus, This chapter is all after the fact that we have been clothed with heavenly bodies. This chapter does not pre-date the judgment. So it gives no support that Christians immediately go to heaven when they die. Everyone must await the judgment to be changed..the last day. 1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall,all be made alive. 1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's "AT HIS COMING". Notice in the chapter that you sent to me that they were clothed/with new bodies and white robes, God has not come with his reward yet. We are not yet clothed in heavenly bodies. |
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6 | Getting the verdict before the judgment? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 84248 | ||
Matthew, I think your general method of interpretation of just about ever text related to the afterlife is fundamentaly flawed and at odds with 2,000 year of Christian exegesis. I also seriously doubt that these are your original ideas developed without any outside input, although it is possible I am wrong. We are in Christ here and we will be even more radically in and with Christ at our death, before the Final or General judgement. "For I am convinced that neither DEATH nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers, nor height, nor depth will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesusour Lord." Romans 8:38-39 Please don't tell me how God loves us while we are dead in the grave but not concious of Him because we have not been "clothed" with our new heavenly bodies. It is not in the body that we are made in the image of God. The Gospel accounts of the dead risen after the crucifxion, to which you have previously alluded, have nothing to say about new or heveanly bodies we will recieve at the Final Judgement resurrection of the dead. This thread has run its course for me. Emmuas |
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7 | Getting the verdict before the judgment? | Bible general Archive 1 | Mathew | 84250 | ||
Emmaus, I see that you have run out of scripture to support the weak views carried out by 2,000 years of Christian exegesis(whatever that word is). You have only put me down in my understanding on this subject in every post you've posted for me. Heb 5:11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to be explained since you are dull of hearing. Heb 5:12 For indeed because of the time, you ought to be teachers, you have need that one teach you again what are the first principles of the oracles of God. And you have become in need of milk, and not of solid food. Heb 5:13 For everyone partaking of milk is unskillful in the Word of Righteousness, for he is an infant. Heb 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, even those who because of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.Heb 6:1 Therefore, having left the discourse of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to full growth, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Heb 6:2 of the baptisms, of doctrine, and of laying on of hands, and of RESSURECTION OF THE DEAD, and of ETERNAL JUDGMENT. Heb 6:3 And this we will do, if God permits. |
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8 | Getting the verdict before the judgment? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 84252 | ||
Matthew, "I see that you have run out of scripture to support the weak views carried out by 2,000 years of Christian exegesis(whatever that word is)." Would any amount of scripture change your position? I doubt it. It is not the scripture or its amount that is at issue, but the interpetation of scripture. Please look up the meaning of exegesis and isogesis also. It is at the heart of our disagreement. "Those seeing you will gaze even at you, saying . . . " (Is. 14:9-11). To be absent from the body is not to be unconscious, but rather it enables one to be home with the Lord, according to Paul (2 Cor. 5:8, Phil. 1:23). The body is just a tent, or clothing, or a tabernacle that does not last (2 Cor. 5:1-4; 2 Pet. 1:13), while man cannot kill the soul (Matt. 10:28). In fact, the souls live past the death of the bodies, since John "saw . . . the souls of those slaughtered . . . and they cried with a loud voice, saying . . . and they were told . . . " (Rev. 6:9-11). Because the soul does not die with the flesh, those in heaven are able to offer our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8), and live in happiness (Rev. 14:13. I know that according to you some "souls" in heaven are the integrated resurrected bodies and souls of the Old testament just. But it seems fundamentaly inconsistent that once the gates of heaven were opened all the other soul/bodies should be unconscious until the Second Coming. But I now know where you are coming from and why, since as you said, you have "let the cat out of the bag." We must for obvious reasons disagree with one another on this matter. What I found disingenuous about your earlier posts was your assertion that you came to your positions by reading of the bible just on your own. Emmaus |
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9 | Getting the verdict before the judgment? | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 84255 | ||
Hello, Emmaus. Speaking of exegesis recalls to mind a forum dialogue that occurred a year or so ago between a rather head-strong user and me. I forget now what the topic of discussion was, but I do recall the fervor and absolute certainty with which this user attempted to defend his position with the aid of carefully chosen verses which he plucked out of context in order to bend them to his purposes. When I told him he was not following standard biblical exegesis but was resorting to eisogesis in order to try to gain a point, the poor fellow was totally fogbound. He had no idea of what I was talking about. Unfortunately the fellow is not an isolated case. Not only on this forum but on the radio and TV he has many cousins who have no idea of what exegesis means or, knowing, choose to pay it no mind. Exegesis tends to lead to proper interpretation of Scripture, and that is something false teachers don't prize at all and would rather not bother with. It messes up their theology. --Hank | ||||||