Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Pre update NASB | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 67025 | ||
Retxar The two versions of NASB read virtually the same for Luke 22:31-32 so I'm not sure what your saying. As for the Thees and Thous here is a passage that uses both help me understand why you say it makes it easier to understand. Genesis 4:14 "Behold, Thou hast driven me this day from the face of the ground; and from Thy face I shall be hidden, and I shall be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth, and it will come about that whoever finds me will kill me." NASB Genesis 4:14 "Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and from Your face I will be hidden, and I will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me." NASB-U Thanks EdB |
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2 | Pre update NASB | Bible general Archive 1 | retxar | 67050 | ||
Ed, I guess what I said had nothing to do with the differences between the NASB and NASB-u. Sorry for the confusion. All I was trying to say, and show, was how thee's and thou's were originally used in Renaissance English. Thee's and thou's were not used as a reverent way to address the Lord, as in the '77 NASB. “Thee” and “thou” are singular forms of the pronouns “you” and “your”. In present day English “you” and “your” can be either singular or plural. In Renaissance English “you” and “your” were always plural and “thee and “thou” were always singular. I only gave the passage of Luke 22:31-32 as an example of how this can be a determining factor in knowing what a particular passage is saying. If we only have “you” and “your”, which can be either singular or plural, we have to guess where Jesus means Peter and where Jesus means all the disciples. If we have “thee” and “thou” as well as “you” and “your”, we can know when Jesus means Peter and when Jesus means disciples. I hope this clears things up a bit, and explains what I was trying to say! retxar |
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3 | Pre update NASB | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 67095 | ||
Retxar I must be as thick as a brick but I don't see how thee and thou makes this passage more understandable. Luke 22:31-32 "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; [32] but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers." NASB-U Luke 22:31-32 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. KJV EdB |
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4 | Pre update NASB | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 67099 | ||
EdB (and Retxar): May I intrude upon the sanctity of this thread with my usual flair of unwisdom? The pronouns thou and thee, now archaic, can be used in the plural as well as in the singular, and are identical in meaning, but 'thou' is used in the subjective case and 'thee' in the objective case. A familiar example is the usage of 'thou' in the decalogue wherein it is obviously used in a plural sense. In the 1971 version of the NASB the archaic pronouns were used only when God was being addressed, whereas in the AV (King James Bible) the pronouns (thee, thou, thine, thy, ye) were used freely, because they were not archaic in 1611, although the trend to more modern usage of you, your, yours had already begun even then. There are those who feel that praying in Elizabethan English (using Thou instead of You) is more reverential, but this is strictly subjective: there is neither scriptural nor linguistic support to be had to justify the practice. On the contrary, the Lord Jesus addressed the Father as "Abba" -- a household term for father, much akin to the intimacy inherent in a child calling his male parent "Daddy." (cf. Mark 14:36) --Hank | ||||||
5 | Pre update NASB | Bible general Archive 1 | retxar | 67108 | ||
Hank, I am no English expert, so teach me something here bro! You said that “thee” and “thou” can be used in the plural as well as in the singular. Does this also apply to the KJV? I can find plenty of verses in the KJV where both “thee” and “you” are used. It seems to me that in all cases that “thee” applies to one and “you” is used to show the places where God is talking to more than one or to show that what God is saying applies to more than one. Also, is the Greek/Hebrew different for thee/thou than it is for you/your? Here’s yet another example of what I see: 1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. "Hand" is singular so the pronoun "thee" is used. "Feet" is plural so the pronoun "you is used. Thanks for your impute of wisdom!, retxar |
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6 | Pre update NASB | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 67146 | ||
Greetings Retxar! I'll let Hank speak to the English question! :-) Greek pronouns must match their antecedents in person, gender, and number. So, you are correct about you question in 1 Cor. 12:21. While the pronoun is the same in both cases, the form is different in both cases because the number of the antecedents is different. One is singular, and one is plural. Therefore, the first pronoun is singular and the second is plural. However, there is not a different word in Greek for thee/thou/you. The same word is used, but it was simply translated differently when the KJV was translated. I hope this helps! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | Pre update NASB | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 67226 | ||
Tim In the case of Luke 22:31-32 is Jesus talking to both the disciples and Peter or Peter exclusively? Retxar says that in Luke 22:31-32 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you (you is plural so Jesus means the disciples), that he may sift you (the disciples) as wheat: [32] But I have prayed for thee (thee is singular so Jesus means Peter), that thy faith (thy is singular so Jesus means Peter's faith) fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. KJV My understanding of English and my interlinear leads me to beleive that Jesus in talking to Peter here. Of course as we have joked about in the past my Greek and Hebrew leave a lot to be desired. EdB |
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8 | Pre update NASB | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 67261 | ||
Greetings EdB! Good morning my friend! Retxar is exactly right about the pronouns in Luke 22:31. However, you are also right that Jesus is talking to Peter. One could paraphrase the verses like this: "And the Lord said, 'Simon, Simon, behold Satan has desired to have you disciples that he may sift you disciples as wheat. But I have prayed for you Simon, that your faith will not fail, and when you return, strengthen the rest of the disciples.'" So, He is talking to Peter, but Peter is only one among the group that Satan would like to sift. However, Jesus tells Peter that He has prayed for him that he might strengthen the rest of the disciples. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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9 | Pre update NASB | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 67270 | ||
Tim Thanks for the info. Funny I have never read that passage to mean Jesus was talking to or about anyone except Peter except when he tells Peter to strengthen his brethren. Even my interlinear reads that Jesus is talking to and about Peter but I see "humas' is second person plural. To me KJV, NKJV, NASB, and ESV all read Jesus is talking to and about Peter. I wonder why that isn't made more clear in those translations such as it is in the NLT? Interesting! EdB |
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