Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Be serious about this- | Bible general Archive 1 | Aspiring Overseer | 56788 | ||
You stated, "I haven't found any passage where a person is held accountable for something he doesn't understand. God treats ignorance with mercy (1 Tim 1:13 and Heb 5:2).". Try these: Job 36:12 12"But if they do not hear, they shall perish by the sword, And they shall die without knowledge. NAS Prov 19:2 2Also it is not good for a person to be without knowledge, And he who makes haste with his feet errs. NAS Isa 27:11 11When its limbs are dry, they are broken off; Women come and make a fire with them. For they are not a people of discernment, Therefore their Maker will not have compassion on them. And their Creator will not be gracious to them. NAS Jer 5:3-4 3O LORD, do not Thine eyes look for truth? Thou hast smitten them, But they did not weaken; Thou hast consumed them, But they refused to take correction. They have made their faces harder than rock; They have refused to repent. 4Then I said, "They are only the poor, They are foolish; For they do not know the way of the LORD Or the ordinance of their God. NAS Matt 15:14 14"Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit." NAS 2 Cor 4:3-4 3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. NAS Hos 4:6 6My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being My priest. Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children. NAS |
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2 | Be serious about this- | Bible general Archive 1 | roviear | 56836 | ||
Aspiring Overseer, Your name is interesting. You are seeking God to become a counselor or pastor or father of kids? If any are the case, then keep seeking and He will lead you down the right path! In response, the person who doesn't understand is not held accountable until the Holy Spirit enlightens him as he seeks to understand. The verses you mention refer to those who have rejected knowledge, not those who are ignorant of it. They know something is wrong, but they turn from the truth. I'm referring to people who were a) never approached and so do not know to seek and b) who are seeking and haven't yet had an experience or "epiphany" that further explains God's truth. Babes in Christ are not held to the same standards as mature Christians or else I fear many more people would give up before they started out of a sense of hopelessness. (I would be very discouraged if I died right now and was held accountable at the same level as Mother Theresa!) I will answer as best I can to each passage: Job 36:10 refers to God giving instruction to man, if they hear (turn toward God), then they are blessed (v11). However, if they don't hear (reject God), then they are cursed (v12) to die without the knowledge of how rich both in spiritual and perhaps physical wealth life would be if they would let go of their pride, anger, and self-righteousness (see ch 35, esp.ly v 12-14, and ch 36, esp.ly v 17-19). Prov 19:2, I'm not sure how this verse supports your argument as it only says it isn't good to lack knowledge, not that something bad will happen because you lack knowledge. Isa. 27:11 is referring to Israel (the "fortified city" in v 10) turning from the Lord to their own methods. The passage speaks of people who, instead of seeking the Lord's will, or asking the Spirit for guidance, try to do things for themselves. This is a pride issue. Deut. 32:28-31 and Isa. 1:2-3 further explains the passage in ch 27. Israel became prideful and sought their own way. They are not an ignorant nation, but a prideful nation. I do not understand your point for using Jer 5:3-4, either (as I didn't understand the use of Prov. 19:2). V 3 says "You have smitten them" and "You have consumed them" but "they have refused to repent". Again, this passage is dealing with Israel's rebellion. They are seeking anything but justice and truth (v 1), yet when God disciplines them, they continue to rebel. A person is not described to be in a state of rebellion, thus requiring smiting and consuming, if he doesn't know he is rebelling. God only disciplines those who knowingly and willingly place their will or desires above God's. Matt 15:14 is describing the Pharisees, not ignorant people (see v 12). If you look at 2 Cor 4:2, you will see that those who are perishing do so because they are crafty and adulterate, or change the meaning of, the gospel. Hos 4:6 begins with v 4 where the people are likened to those who contend with priests. This isn't a result of ignorance, but of rebellion. They contend because they don't want to obey, or they want to alter, the rules. "My people" means God's chosen ones, or Israel. They are cursed because they rejected knowledge, thus allowing generational sin. The stronghold established through the parents will not be broken until the ancestors seek the Lord. Just as Adam sinned and caused the rest of humanity to be born in sin, so did Israel curse its children. As an example of my point, a parent shouldn't hold his child accountable for something until the something has been clearly defined, otherwise, how would the child know what he has done wrong? 1 Sam 3:13 says that God holds the *parents* responsible for the sons' evil ways because the *parents* know. In the same way, God holds His children (those who have repented and accepted Jesus as their Savior) accountable for the truths we know. However, it isn't good to remain a babe in Christ, for then we cannot fulfill the Great Commission. In Christ, Estelle |
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3 | Be serious about this- | Bible general Archive 1 | Aspiring Overseer | 56914 | ||
Estelle, PLease forgive me as I have not had the chance to fully reply to your response. In my studies today, however, I believe I may have found a passage you may find more conclusive. Lev 5:17-18 17"Now if a person sins and does any of the things which the LORD has commanded not to be done, though he was unaware, still he is guilty, and shall bear his punishment. NAS Best wishes for a fruitful study, AO |
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4 | deeds of the law | Bible general Archive 1 | mbooker | 56928 | ||
'Now if a person sins and does any of the things which the LORD has commanded not to be done, though he was unaware, still he is guilty, and shall bear his punishment.' Now that is pretty disheartening :(. My question is, was this under the law? If so, haven't we been redeemed from the curse of the law? (Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal 3:13). Another question: How do we reconcile the following scriptures? For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Romans 2:13 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:20 Thanks in advance to those who will respond. Abba Father Bless... |
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5 | deeds of the law | Bible general Archive 1 | roviear | 56956 | ||
Mbooker, hello again. I just finished a post to Aspiring Overseer about this passage in Lev 5 that you quoted. If you read the beginning of the chapter, you'll see that Moses was explaining when 'atonement', or payment of sin, was required. The person is still guilty of the sin, regardless of whether or not he knows about the sin. However, he isn't required to physically pay for it until it is made known to him. However, whether he pays or not, this does not absolve him of his spiritual debt. This is one of the key points why life without Christ is utterly hopeless, for Christ IS our hope. Unlike BC, today we do not 'atone' for sin because it is impossible to pay the price for it (although Catholicism believes otherwise). Jesus' blood washes us clean as we pray for God's forgiveness of both known and unknown sin in our lives. As we continue to seek truth, we should ask the Holy Spirit to reveal our sins to us so that we can confess them specifically and turn from them with the help of God (see John 3:21). Rom 2:13 is further clarified by James 1:22-25 (and 1 John 3:7). Essentially, speaking the talk isn't enough, for one has a tendency to forget what isn't practiced. One must also walk the talk to a) remind himself of God's ways and increase his knowledge and b) be visible proof of God's ways to others. Rom 3:20 (as further clarified by Gal 2:16, Psalm 143:2, and Acts 13:39) states that no one can justify (atone for) his sins by action alone. It is not enough to follow the laws as depicted by Moses. One must also ask for forgiveness. Basically, good deeds without faith (in Christ) are hollow and done for selfish reasons. Faith without good deeds is hollow because it is not proven. You cannot have one without the other. James 2 explains this specific point. In Christ, Estelle |
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6 | deeds of the law | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 56988 | ||
Estelle, "Unlike BC, today we do not 'atone' for sin because it is impossible to pay the price for it (although Catholicism believes otherwise). Jesus' blood washes us clean as we pray for God's forgiveness of both known and unknown sin in our lives. As we continue to seek truth, we should ask the Holy Spirit to reveal our sins to us so that we can confess them specifically and turn from them with the help of God (see John 3:21)." Actually Catholics do not believe otherwise. Catholics believe the atoning blood of Christ and only the blood of Christ washes us clean and achieves for us eternal salvation. This is the primary subject matter of the New Testament. There is a distinction,however, between eternal and temporal atonement and salvation. The Old Testament deals in essence with temporal salvation and atonement. The Old Testament rarely if ever in unabiguous terms refers to eternal salvation and atonement. Usually it refers to temporal salvation, such as deliverance from slavery in Egypt or physical death or the various other enemies of Israel or from plagues that Israel may or may not have brought upon itself by sin. It is mainly the temporal consequence of sin we see addressed in the Old Testament when sin is addressed. A few examples from among hundreds of examples to consider: I wait for thy salvation, O LORD. Raiders shall raid Gad, but he shall raid at their heels. Gen 49:18-19 And Moses said to the people, "Fear not, stand firm, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will work for you today; for the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall never see again. The LORD will fight for you, and you have only to be still." Ex 14:13-14 Because the LORD your God walks in the midst of your camp, to save you and to give up your enemies before you, therefore your camp must be holy, that he may not see anything indecent among you, and turn away from you. Duet 23:14 Now therefore stand still, that I (Samuel) may plead with you before the LORD concerning all the saving deeds of the LORD which he performed for you and for your fathers. 1 Sam 12:7 "Man is also chastened with pain upon his bed, and with continual strife in his bones; so that his life loathes bread, and his appetite dainty food... His soul draws near the Pit, and his life to those who bring death. If there be for him an angel, a mediator, one of the thousand, to declare to man what is right for him; and he is gracious to him, and says, "Deliver him from going down into the Pit, I have found a ransom; let his flesh become fresh with youth; let him return to the days of his youthful vigor"; then man prays to God, and he accepts him, he comes into his presence with joy. He recounts to men his salvation, and he sings before men, and says: "I sinned and perverted what was right, and it was not requited to me. He has redeemed my soul from going down into the Pit, and my life shall see the light." Job 33:19-28 And although the NT is concerned primarily with etrnal salvation we also see even there the concept of temporal salavation: And when he got into the boat, his disciples followed him. And behold, there arose a great storm on the sea, so that the boat was being swamped by the waves; but he was asleep. And they went and woke him, saying, "Save, Lord; we are perishing." Matt 8:23-25 And when he got into the boat, his disciples followed him. And behold, there arose a great storm on the sea, so that the boat was being swamped by the waves; but he was asleep. And they went and woke him, saying, "Save, Lord; we are perishing." Matt 27:42 "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he has visited and redeemed his people, and has raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David, as he spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old, that we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all who hate us; Luke 1:68-71 And Peter answered him, "Lord, if it is you, bid me come to you on the water." He said, "Come." So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus; but when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, "Lord, save me." Jesus immediately reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, "O man of little faith, why did you doubt?" Luke 14:28-31 Man can be a temporal savior by physically saving someone even as Jesus reached out with his hand to save Peter from drowning or by feeding the starving man. And man can atone for the temporal consequence of sin such as by making restitution for theft or destruction of anothers' goods and there by removing the hardship caused and bringing reconciliation and perhaps removing the temporal consequence of his own incarceration for his sin. It is only in this tempral sense that Catholics believe in atonement. Emmaus |
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7 | deeds of the law | Bible general Archive 1 | teragram123 | 57030 | ||
Dear Emmaus You said "Catholics believe the atoning blood of Christ" In words and doctrines you are correct... but not in actually walking out in faith. I was raised in the Catholic faith. Yes I learned the words "saved by the blood of Jesus"... yet followed it up by years of penance and indulgences... telling me that these had to be done to wipe away the stain of the sin and the fear of the fires of purgatory. Following are the words I was given as a child to memorize from the Baltimore Catechism... Glossary - Purgatory - The state in the life to come where souls are punished for a time who have died in grace but in venial sin or with a debt of temporal punishment unpaid. #184 Who are punished in purgatory? Those are punished for a time in purgatory who die in the state of grace but are guilty of venial sin, or have not fully satisfied for the temporal punishment due to their sins. Temporal punishment - The punishment which one is obliged to endure for a time, either in this life of in purgatory, for sins that have been for given. Indulgence - The remission of temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven granted by the Church from her spiritual treasury. Partial indulgence - The remission of a part of the temporal punishment due to one’s forgiven sins, effected by the Church through the application of her spiritual treasury. Plenary indulgence - The remission of all the debt of one’s temporal punishment, granted by the Church through the application of her spiritual treasury Penance - The virtue disposing us to be sorry for our sins; also, one of the sacraments, whereby sins committed after Baptism are forgiven by the absolution of the priest to sinners who confess them with true contrition. Confession - The telling of our sins to an authorized priest in order to obtain their forgiveness. If Catholics truly believe in the atoning blood of Jesus... then their “religion” would manifest it! When I knew the truth... I became free indeed. |
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8 | deeds of the law | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 57045 | ||
teragram123 If the words and doctrine are correct(true), but the actual walking out in faith deficient, where does the fault lie, with the teacher or the individual? It is not just knowing the truth that sets you free, but walking it out in faith. Even the catechism passages you quote do not talk about washing away the stain of sin only the temporal consequences of sin. Catholics who truly believe in the atoning blood of Jesus do manifest it in their lifes and their religion. They too know the truth are free indeed. Emmaus |
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9 | why is Catholic confession required? | Bible general Archive 1 | roviear | 57063 | ||
Emmaus, but again, it seems from Teragram123's comments and quotes that the rules established for absolving the temporal consequences of sin can become quite arbitrary. I would understand if the penance required would be to wash the walls of the church for those who graffiti'd, or buying and replanting the neighbor's flowers if they were ruined. But saying a rosary however many times? How does that help? If I as a Christian have sinned against my brother in Christ, then my brother is free to approach me directly about my sin. If I do not confess to God and am not willing to make restitution to my brother, then my brother must bring with him at least one more Christian to approach me again. If I still am not willing to confess to *God* and to my brother, then the church must get involved and make a decision to BIBLICALLY remove me from the church (Matt 18). No where that I see is anyone who is NOT God allowed to say ok, you've done the time for your crime, so even though you didn't confess to God and or to the person involved, you're free. In answer to your question about who is wrong, the teacher or the individual, it is the teacher, for teachers are held to a much stricter standard than pupils (James 3:1). If the teacher tells his students that they *must* go before a priest regardless of whether the sin has been made right with the involved parties, the teacher is forcing the student into a no-win situation. Why does Catholicism require its participants to go the extra mile when Jesus has already done so? Yet another question, where in the 66 books of the Bible is purgatory mentioned? In Christ, Estelle |
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10 | why is Catholic confession required? | Bible general Archive 1 | teragram123 | 57079 | ||
I believe you misunderstood me about doctrine and words being true. I was quoting from your statement. “Catholics believe the atoning blood of Christ and only the blood of Christ washes us clean and achieves for us eternal salvation.” The words... the Blood cleanses is altogether true... but If as a Catholic, had I truly believed in the blood’s saving and cleansing power, my faith would have prevented me from confessing to the priest, and doing the penances to alleviate the pain of sin that required a term in purgatory. If I had believed as you were saying, my faith would have shown by my works... and those works would NOT have been vain works. Faith frees the soul of the fear for the need of added works above the Blood. What can wash away my sin? NOTHING but the blood of Jesus. |
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11 | why is Catholic confession required? | Bible general Archive 1 | roviear | 57083 | ||
Terribly sorry, Teragram, this question was meant for Emmaus as I know you and I agree on this point. I did not notice that I was responding to your post instead of his response to mine. I will cut and paste to repost to Emmaus. In Christ, Estelle |
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