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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What about those who never heard of JC ? | Bible general Archive 1 | bobwilkins99 | 30865 | ||
Let me see if I understand what you mean. I will TRY to repeat your view, then draw some conclusions that would logically follow. You tell me if I comprehend your stance. You say that due to the evidence of God in Creation and our conscience also bearing witness, these thing will lead some people to "seek" GOD (ROM 1-2). Once someone is "seeking" GOD, then GOD will bring someone into their life to share the Gospel with them. If they "accept" the message in their heart, they are saved. Logical Conclusions: 1.)If we Christians don't do our job of preachiong the WORD, then less people will be saved. 2.)(now, I'm assuming you are a calvinist in terms ofthe "chosen elect vs. free will" debate) Can we say that all those civilizations throughout time, that never had and Christian influence whatsoever, are residing in HELL for eternity. I am pretty confident in the fact that there have been many large civilizations that did not hear any JESUS. ALL of the people in the Western Hemespere went to hell, until the Jesuits came over in the early 1500's. I guess in such a view, we would conclude that it must have "sucked" to be a mayan, Native American, Aztec, Inca, or Eskimo back before the Word made it over to the Westen half of planet Earth. 1500 years of people going to HELL. Every last one of them...straight to HELL. Even if they realized through the natural environment, that there had to be one creator GOD, Even if they realized that they had a conscience and had a general idea of right and wrong, Even if maybe just a few saw their behavior and how it contrasted with their conscience and they "repented" for the evil they knew they did...They still went to HELL, because no one verbally preaced them Jesus. I am not exactly sure how many millions that is, but I can be sure that it would break your heart and GOD's heart. My tone may lead you to believe I don't agree with you at all. However, I do in many regards. I am just a realist who seeks the truth without being totally uncompassionate. I agree that No get to the father except through Jesus. I believe (not sure if you do, but I assume you would) that we do not "choose" or accept salvation. BY NO MEANS! It is fully GOD's Grace that we are saved. Stated in Eph. 2:8 and much of John's gospel. HE first LOVED us. HE gave us even the desire to "seek" Him. God Chose us, we didn't choose GOD. Some were predestined for Heaven, some for Hell. It was contingent not on our works, but on His Plan. Now I just wanted to state my view on that suject because it is closely linked to a systematic approach to my primary question. As I said before, I believe that Nobody gets to Heaven, except through Jesus Christ. I have to believe it, as it is clearly written in the book of John. However, my compassionate side wishes that None would parish, but all have eternal life. Now, if you are not asleep, I wish to pose a further question on this subject. It comes from the school of thought called "inclusivism or "wider hope". not to confused with Universalism (which is some liberal view that all will go to heaven). No, "inclusivism" is much different, or only slightly one may argrue. Proponents of this view are John Saunders and I think C.S. Lewis as well. Now here's where I am inexperienced or on shakey ground. I am quite interested in this theory of inclusivism and will Try not to butcher it. Inclusivism is something to the effect of: When on must go through Jesus to get to the Father, the form of Jesus need not be as we would commonly think. Becasue Jesus is truth ,and people all have consciences which recognize Truth. So those unreached peoples may have some recourse before they go to Hell. I must leave they are kicking me off the computer. |
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2 | What about those who never heard of JC ? | Bible general Archive 1 | Christian Marine | 30875 | ||
1. Hebrews 11 tells us the FAITH saved many BEFORE Jesus came! 2. Romans tells us that God will provide IF we seek him. 3. The Scriptures tells us that, to quote you, "...knowing right from wrong..." is not enough. 4. The Free Will of man and predestination DO NOT Coninside. You must choose one or the other. Since Jesus taught Free Will and the Old Testiment, to include Adam, give expmples of Free Will then, I believe in Free Will. 5. The Faith referred to in Hebrews was NOT based on Jesus' sacrifice. Therefore the Saints in Hebrews 11 did not experience the Grace of Jesus but of God! 6. Just becuse someone does not call the Trinty they believe in Jesus, does not mean that it is not my Jesus in their langiuage. That is God's decison. I am not qualified to judge another's heart! 7. Yes I agree that as a Christian I can thwart the Salvation opportunity of a non believer by my example. However, I beleive that God will judge me more harshly than the one I led astray. Read Paul's writings and Jesus' words. They support that idea. There are times in Scripture when God "gave up" on some people. n short, they used up all their chances. Look, I am no scholar! I subscribe to the idea that if we believe in the basic four truths of Salvation, A.The Virgin Birth B.The sinless life of God as Jseus on earth. C.Jesus' death on the Cross for our sins. D.Jesus' resurection from teh dead for our salvation. then we, as saved believers, can argue about everything else. (I am not elliquent enough to come up with that. That is a Georgia Christian Marine's version of J V Mcgee's statement.) In my reading of Revalations and the Gospels, I think that the "Book of Life" has EVERY person's name in it from the beginning. Scripture in John 3:16-18, tells us that Jesus came into the world to save the world and that his desire is that no one should perish. Free Will, in my opinion, means that our names are in "Lamb's Book of Life" UNLESS we die without accepting Him, which is the ONLY unpardonable sin, and THEN it is CROSSED OUT! Calvinism or what ever. That is what I beleive and I believe that my job is to reflect Jesus in this life s that the holy Spirit can use me, if it desires, to save others. Look without Free Will, why did Jesus have to die? If Free Will is not the way, why is the choosing of Jesus by us so important? Romans also addresses the issue of Election. We are elected by God through Jesus before the beginning of time. If we refuse to assept Jesus, then we refuse the election and are destined to hell for eternity. God Bless you! |
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3 | What about those who never heard of JC ? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 30919 | ||
1. Yes, you are right. What was the Old Testament faith in? 2. What verse(s) are you citing here? 3. Absolutely correct, because it is our failure to DO right that condemns us. 4. Sure they coincide, or else you have to start tearing whole chapters out of your Bible. Predestination is biblical. So is free will, in a certain sense. The question is how they fit together. 5. Wrong. The faith expressed was in the promise of God's redemption. No, they did not have as much revelation as we do regarding the specifics of that redemption, but the object of their faith was the same. 6. I don't understand the point you are trying to make here. 7. Then you have a poor concept of God's sovereignty. Show me verses which say that everyone's name is in the book of life. Show me passages which state we refuse God's choosing. The Holy Spirit is a "He," not an "it." Predestination is addressed in Matthew 13, John 6, Romans 8-9, and Ephesians 1, among other places. Denying it is denying Scripture. --Joe! |
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