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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The Trinity and being tormented forever | Rev 14:9 | Towanda | 161071 | ||
I thought I sent this question before but I must have not because someone usually answers my questions. My husband is a believe of the Jovaho witnesses and he is trying to confuse my children. My questions when Jesus return as it says in John that the unbeliever will be throw in the lake of fire and will be tormented day and night will they be tormented or that is just a better way of saying you will burn and that is the end or will they acually be burning thru eternally. I just can't believe that someone will burn forever. Is that a saying symbolic? my next question is about the trinity the bible says that if you seen the father you seen me I am in the father and the father is in me does that mean we are speaking of 2 Jesus Christ and the one who sent him as 2 people or are they one? | ||||||
2 | The Trinity and being tormented forever | Rev 14:9 | mark d seyler | 161072 | ||
Hi Towanda, Regarding eternal torment, this is quoted from a post I wrote to someone asking the same question: The common expression of "forever and ever", is (transliterated): Tous aionas (accusative plural) ton aionon (genitive plural). This is literally translated "to the ages of the ages". Aion, or "age" comes from the root "aei", meaning continued duration: "always", or "ever". Examples are 1 Peter 3:15 "be ready always to give an answer", and Acts 7:51 "ye do always resist the Holy Spirit." This is the phase used to describe God's eternal nature: Re 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore (tous aionas ton aionon), Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever (tous aionas ton aionon), This is the same phrase used to describe the torment of those who worship the beast: Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever (tous aionas ton aionon): and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. This is also what describes the torment of the devil, the antichrist, and the false prophet: Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever (tous aionas ton aionon). Torment, from "basanismos", also appears in Rev 9:5, in the plague of "locusts" from the pit. They are given power to torment 5 months. During this time, people will not be able to die. This torment is not anihilation. It is torment. In the same way, the unredeemed will experience everlasting punishment. Regarding Matt 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell," the word translated "destroy" is from the Greek "apollumi". It is variously translated as perish, destroy, lose, and to be lost. Again going to Thayer's Lexicon, he defines this as "to destroy, to render useless, to kill, to perish, to be lost, to be ruined, destroyed." This is the word used in Luke 15:4 of a lost sheep. It is used in Luke 15:8 of a lost coin. It is used in Luke 15:24 of the prodigal son "he was lost, and is found." From these examples we know that apollumi is not neccessarily speaking of complete and total destruction, since in each of these instances that which was "apollumi - lost" was later found. As much as I would like to think that those who reject Jesus will one day no longer exist, will no longer be aware of the agonizing consequence of their choice, I do not believe that is what the Bible teaches. Just as the redeemed experience everlasting life, the unredeemed experience everlasting punishment. As the LORD lives forever and ever, so also the smoke of the torment of the unredeemed ascends forever and ever. There is much more to this discussion. If you wish to read many objections to the doctrine of eternal torment, and answers to those objections, the entire thread begins with post 156647, and especially in the posts between myself and SBoone. I hope this helps! If you need more information, let me know. Love in Christ, Mark |
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3 | The Trinity and being tormented forever | Rev 14:9 | Morant61 | 161098 | ||
Greetings Mark! Excellent post my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | The Trinity and being tormented forever | Rev 14:9 | mark d seyler | 161103 | ||
Thank you, Tim! There is one thing, however, that I must address, that my brother pointed out to me. I would like to subtract the following: As much as I would like to think that those who reject Jesus will one day no longer exist, will no longer be aware of the agonizing consequence of their choice, I do not believe that is what the Bible teaches. The fact is that I made that statement initially to SBoone trying to softpedal a truth which he did not want to accept. That was my error. I do not normally share this, but when people ask "how can we be happy in heaven when Mom didn't make it?" well, the time will come when we do not remember them anymore, but before that, we will understand the true meaning of their unrighteousness, and the righteousness of God's judgment. We will worship Him for our salvation, and we will worship Him for the righteous punishment of the wicked. That doesn't sound as nice to the natural man, but there it is. The fact is, all have the chance for mercy, these did not want it. Their choice. So to say that "I'd like to think that they would just be anihilated" would by implication say that God is not just, and may that be far from me. But thank you for your compliment, I will gladly accept it for the remainder, and thank you to my brother who chose rather to remain anonymous than to risk the appearance of division. Love in Christ, Mark |
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