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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | who is the man child? | Rev 12:5 | Mommapbs | 44358 | ||
Greetings Markarios! I respect your posts and look forward to reading more from you. In my study today, I came across this verse and would appreciate your thoughts on this interpretation. Re: Rev 12:5-6 I agree that the woman is Israel and her son is Jesus. However, I'd like to offer another suggestion about the child who is caught up to God and His Throne. The Greek word for the CHILD caught up to God and His throne in this verse is "teknon." It can mean either sex, and can be plural - children. Birth is also suggested. (We are "born of the Spirit" too! You must be "born again") Could this child be the Church? - We, who by the new birth, are adopted as sons - indeed we are called the "children" of God! Since Jesus willingly gave up His Spirit when He was crucified, it doesn't appear to correlate with the Greek word for "caught" (harpazĂ´) from to seize or snatch, suggesting a taking away by force. Could this possibly be referring to the "rapture" of the Church, the children of God? Ref 2 Thess 2:1 where Paul describes this gathering? I know this is wildly speculative, but dissecting the language prompts me to ask the question. Lastly, we see that the woman fled to the wilderness where God had prepared a place for her for 1,260 days (3 1/2 years). I recall Jesus' words about His Second coming to the Jews - the remnant that God will save from His chosen people Israel. (who I am differentiating them from the Church as Paul addresses them as "brothers and sisters" in 2 Thess. 2;1) In Mt 24: 16 - 22 Jesus said, "Then those in Judea must flee to the hills . . ." He then foretells a time of great calamity, but comforts them with this: "But it will be shortened for the sake of God's chosen ones." It is also interesting to me to see the parallel between what Paul tells believers in 2 Thess 2:1-3 about the coming of the Lord and how we will be gathered together to meet Him. He tells us that there will be a great rebellion against God and that the man of lawlessness will be revealed. He will exalt himself and position himself in the temple of God, claiming to be God.(v3-4) Comparing this to what Jesus says in Mt 24:13- "A time will come when your will see what Daniel spoke about: the sacrilegious object that causes desolation standing in the Holy Place" Then we read these interesting words. "Reader pay attention! WHO is the reader? When this was written, it was read by the CHURCH. This seems to have significance to me. Putting these passages together with Rev 12:5-6 makes for some interesting thinking about the "timetable" of the Last Days. Blessings, Mommpbs |
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2 | who is the man child? | Rev 12:5 | Makarios | 44403 | ||
Greetings Mommapbs, The apocalyptic language of Revelation is full of imagery and I appreciate the fact that you have taken it upon yourself to study the Scriptures very closely and in their original languages! It is honorable that you have humbly spoken of what you have presented as a bit of speculation, in wake of the forementioned evidence that led us to a conclusion in Rev. 12:5. However, there are a few things that we are presented with that may prove "challenging" to the idea of substituting the church for the child while retaining the imagery of the woman as meaning 'Israel'.. It is not the nation of Israel that gave birth to the church, but faith in Jesus Christ Himself. Also, when you speak of the church, are you speaking of only the elect? There are many who call themselves Christians even though they may not be truly saved. These are only a couple of the possible challenges or 'inconsistencies' when applying the 'church' imagery to the child in Revelation 12:5-6. In addition, it is hard to find any Scripture (outside of the rapture) that would support the church as being a suitable candidate for the imagery that is spoken of. In contrast, there is much Scripture that could be used to support Jesus as being the best 'candidate' for the direct object (child) of the vision! For instance: Micah 5:2, Isaiah 7:14, 9:6, and virtually every verse that chronicles the coming of the Messiah as God in the flesh could be "said" to lend support to the imagery of Christ as being the child spoken of in this verse. So, judging by the weight of the Scriptural support, the imagery of Christ as being the child is the overwhelming favorite! But I do not write this to discourage you in your studies, and I thank you for asking this question, since it challenges us to consider other alternatives, or to refresh our memories in reference to what was 'decided upon' in the past, and why that choice was made. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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3 | who is the man child? | Rev 12:5 | Mommapbs | 44485 | ||
Greetings Makarios! Thanks for the reply. It will be wonderful when we know all these things won't it! But for right now, please forgive me for "pushing the envelope" of predetermined doctrine!" I have a couple of other observations. First of all, I am not trying to make the male child fit with the Church, but rather THE CHILD that was caught up to God in the latter portion of this verse. I completely agree that the first word used for child refers to Jesus Christ. You wrote: "It is not the nation of Israel that gave birth to the church, but faith in Jesus Christ Himself. Also, when you speak of the church, are you speaking of only the elect?" With regard to Israel, "salvation is from the Jews." We Gentiles are "grafted in" when we come to faith in Christ, so to me, it makes sense that all believers are "Abraham's children." Yes, when I use the term church, I am referring to the elect. I believe the elect of God are the Old Testament Saints, The Church or the Bride of Christ, and the Great Tribulation Saints (which includes the 144,000 Divinely sealed witnesses). Thanks for bearing with me as I sort all this out! God is so wonderful and patient with us, His dear children, and our limited finite minds! But thanks be to God, for He gives us the mind of Christ - one day we will know as we are now known - won't that be glory! Mommapbs PS: Of course I agree that if there is no rapture of the Church, this makes no sense! And if the doctrine of the Rapture is eliminated, it seems to me that the learders of the "Church" had better prepare believers in their fellowship for the terrible days ahead and warn them to refuse the "mark of the beast" - which incidently I believe is an implantable microchip that is presently available! |
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