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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | in Prisons | 1 Pet 3:21 | jlhetrick | 191842 | ||
Hello Rabban, Please bear with me in my continued efforts. When you wrote that “it is a waste of time to argue over something that has been disputed for 2000 years…” you sort of hit the nail on the head. As my original post was not transparent enough let me say clearly that this was part of my concern. All public forums that I am aware of have their own written and unwritten rules, so to speak. The standard on SBF is to avoid controversial issues that have long-standing points of disagreement, especially where no definitive biblical text can rule one side in or out. When I say “avoid” I particularly mean the avoiding of posting such opinions as definite or factual. It is customary, and I believe more scholarly, to at least offer that there is a differing opinion on the issue so that others less learned have the opportunity to consider. With that said, it is obvious to me from reading your posts that you are, and apparently have for some time been, a serious student of the Bible. I respect that and see that to the advantage of the forum as well as myself personally. My point in asking you to support your argument biblically was really to illustrate that you could not. Not in order to embarrass you or create an argument, but rather to show that we have a responsibility to not declare what Scripture does not. To your points on Scripture and the “Fall” of angels I have this in short response. This, as I understand it, does not fall into that category of ‘disputed’ texts or doctrines. The long-held, orthodox view of the Fall is established from a common sense, logical, and contextual approach to Scripture. Satan is described in Scripture as the “Father of Lies” for example. The serpent in the Garden, with Adam and Eve accomplished its goal through deception. If the serpent was not Satan actually, it was the result of Satan’s work specifically; a fallen Lucifer that is. A common sense, logical approach to Scripture requires that conclusion and amounts to more than “the briefest hint”. For sake of time and space I will not attempt to correct the obvious errors such as, for example, stating “the New Testament writers never give any hint of believing in ‘a fall of angels’ outside of Revelation” while at the same time (in the same post) you very clearly give NT reference to where they have done just that very thing (2Peter 2:4 as one obvious example) In short- the rhetoric does nothing to support your position but plenty to avoid offering the biblical support requested. With that, I do agree to disengage from the discussion. God bless, Jeff |
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2 | in Prisons | 1 Pet 3:21 | rabban | 191859 | ||
Jeff I will refrain from following your pattern of behaviour. I will simply reply 1). That you clearly did not read carefully what I wrote. 2). That you did not have the courtesy to answer any of my questions such as (I quote) a). All I can say is that if you think you know when the angels fell (apart from Satan) other than in Genesis 6.1-2 then demonstrate it from Scripture. b). And perhaps you will also indicate where in Scripture mankind are called in an unqualified way 'spirits'. I have given you a number of references where angels are called 'spirits'. c). Please can you tell me anywhere in Scripture where men are spoken of as 'spirits in prison'? I note also that your answers are in the form of dogmatic statements not of arguments on the basis of Scripture, reference to which in your last reply is singularly lacking. You say, 'The long-held, orthodox view of the Fall is established from a common sense, logical, and contextual approach to Scripture'. That is always the refuge of those who have no arguments. I did not deny that angels had fallen (you see you do not read what people have written). I stated that you could produce no Scripture which said when it had happened. I had already given you detailed Scriptures about Satan so that is irrelevant. I appreciate that you are not a scholar and cannot therefore be expected to take a fully scholarly approach. But I do expect you to be fair. I have been checking back on some of your posts and I would remind you of what you said to one person you wrote to: "let me say that a quick lesson to learn regarding the forum is to not expect to respond to every post made to you. It may seem rude, but it's the reality of it. Very often the multiple responses are addressing the same issue and a response to the first questioner should be sufficient. In addition, there are others who can competently answer questions as well freeing you up from some of the responsibility." I had replied to the first questioner so it seems that you change your coat to suit the situation. You have admitted that you were not genuinely seeking guidance but were simply seeking to find fault. And quite frankly I do not like the way you treat your adversaries. I must therefore request that you will please avoid personally addressing any questions to me in future. Leave it to Doc to do the monitoring. I realise that you will want to have the last blast. It is your way. But please address it to the forum and not to me, for I am not interested. In Him |
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3 | in Prisons | 1 Pet 3:21 | jlhetrick | 191870 | ||
Rabban- Following my pattern of behavior is what I had hoped to have persuaded you to do; that is, insisting that you support your statements with scripture and that you not qualify as true what is not biblically qualified as true. In any event, you have refused to do so and there is really nothing more I can do to help you in that area. I would like to suggest though, that since we are both easily recognized as falling far short of scholarly, we both make it a point always to allow Scripture to speak for itself. And please do not speak of another’s responsibility to courtesy when it was of you yourself that had been originally and fairly requested to support your argument and you yourself who refused to do that. I should expect absolutely that you refrain from misrepresenting my words. Nowhere did I "admit" that I was "seeking to find fault". But that statement further supports that your not really interested in what I was attempting to do. It is the standard on the forum that when one reads an unqualified statement to ask for biblical reference (even when one knows there is none) in order to point the other writer to their error. Usually these efforts lead to responsible interaction that either corrects the questioner or redirects the original error. And don't think it so easy to avoid responsible participation by asking others not to question your OPINIONS. With that said I will make one more statement in hopes it will help and then promise not to respond to you again on this topic. That way, you are welcomed to have the last word; I promise to read any further response you make. My last point is this. Never be mistaken to believe that “statistics” are in any way sufficient in and of themselves to establish the meaning of a word or phrase. If you are able to apply that to any part of your response to me, you are well on your way. If you are to continue on the forum, I look forward to more productive communication with you. Please remember that it is Scripture that has and is the authority here. God bless, Jeff |
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4 | in Prisons | 1 Pet 3:21 | rabban | 191892 | ||
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