Results 1 - 14 of 14
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The Heresy of Oneness Pentecostalism | Deut 6:4 | kalos | 112620 | ||
The Heresy of Oneness Pentecostalism Heresy, not Hairsplitting Ezekiel: (Note: the numbers 1, 2, 3, etc. within the text are footnote numbers.) Oneness Pentecostalism: Heresy, not Hairsplitting -------------------- “It would be inappropriate to argue that Jehovah’s Witnesses or various other groups are non-Christian because they deny the doctrine of the Trinity, but that the United Pentecostal Church can reject the Trinity and still be considered Christian.” -------------------- The June 1997 issue of Charisma features an article by executive editor J. Lee Grady entitled, “The Other Pentecostals,”1 reporting on the estimated 17 million Oneness Pentecostals worldwide with 2.1 million in the United States.2 Grady calls Pentecostalism a “house divided.”3 While Trinitarian and Oneness Pentecostals alike trace their roots back to the Azusa Street Revival of l906,4 Oneness Pentecostals have been “separated from their brethren by a nasty doctrinal feud that split families and churches.”5 Today younger leaders in the Oneness movement hope to end the feud and lead their movement into the mainstream church.6 It is disturbing enough to read that 17 million Oneness believers are following a theology that rejects the biblical doctrine of the trinity.7 Even more troubling is the article’s suggestion that among many evangelicals this Oneness error is not terribly significant!” Papering over Differences After discussing the Oneness rejection of Trinitarian language, Grady uses the phrase, “To split doctrinal hairs even further,...” to introduce Oneness’ insistence on baptism in Jesus’ name only.9 While Oneness Pentecostals may be “too sectarian to mix with other evangelicals,” he writes, “they are too orthodox to be compared with Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses.” Grady concludes, “No one really knows what to do with them.”10 He proceeds to juxtapose striking comments by two leaders, one from each camp. Trinitarian scholar and ex-Oneness follower Gregory Boyd is quoted as saying, “If you deny the eternality of the three personal ways God is God, you undermine the very essence of Christianity.”11 Oneness leader T. F. Tenney states, “We do not deny the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit.... We believe Jesus Christ is wholly, fully, absolutely, and completely God. But no one is going to put us in the position of saying that there are three Gods.”12 Grady then offers an observation on our times, seemingly without recognizing its devastating ramifications: “The argument over whether God is three-in-one or one-in-three is a moot point for the average layman, who tends to view the doctrine of the trinity as an unexplainable mystery.”13 Grady implies that the Church should be more concerned with other issues. Concerning the baptismal view of the most rigid Oneness Pentecostals, he states, “It is on this issue, theologians say, that Oneness Pentecostals have drifted dangerously toward spiritual elitism and heresy.”14 Indeed, the Oneness view of baptism is lethally flawed. Oneness View Seriously Flawed Even to remotely imply, however, that corrections to the Oneness understanding of baptism would rescue Oneness theology is wholly misleading. Grady expresses cavalier confidence that a prominent leader within the largest Oneness denomination, the United Pentecostal Church (UPC), has a right relationship with the Holy Spirit. Referring to Anthony Mangun, a friend of President Clinton, Grady writes: “A good friend who has the Holy Ghost. That might be the best friend any president could have.”15 The problem is that a group’s denial of an essential biblical teaching excludes that group from Christianity. While there may be some Christians in Oneness churches, the movement as a whole is non-Christian. As CRI president Hank Hanegraaff has said, “It would be inappropriate to argue that Jehovah’s Witnesses or various other groups are non-Christian because they deny the doctrine of the Trinity, but that the United Pentecostal Church can reject the Trinity and still be considered Christian.”16 -------------------------------- The Oneness denial of the true nature of God is heretical. Additional false teachings only compound their error. If you want to know more about the dangerous heresy know as Oneness Pentecostalism, CRI has several valuable resources available. CRI, P.O. Box 7000, Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688 Material found at: www.equip.org/search/ |
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2 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | kalos | 112622 | ||
"Oneness Pentecostal theology is a false doctrine that denies the Trinity, states there is only one person in the Godhead, that you must be baptized to be saved, and that speaking in tongues is a necessary sign for salvation. Oneness Pentecostal theology is not biblical." (www.carm.org) |
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3 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | jcsav | 112624 | ||
Kalos, do you really believe that Jesus and Peter, John, Paul and the Others believed in Trinity? We believe in the manifestation of God to man in the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost or Spirit, if you perfer. But not as three persons. Don't the Bible refer to Jesus as the Everlasting Father. Did it say in him dwell ALL the fullness of the Godhead? What would you call Paul who spoke in tongues. Or Peter who baptized in Jesus name. Or Jesus who said one of the signs that shall follow the Church is that they shall speak in new tongues? Is this a sign of trinity? | ||||||
4 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | EdB | 112632 | ||
Of course John and Peter believed in the Trinity they saw Jesus pray to the Father, they heard Jesus talk of the Holy Spirit. John at least stood at the cross as Jesus committed His soul to the Father. Paul of course knew because his eyes were opened to the truth. Why use the term Godhead if it weren't made of more than one personage? EdB |
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5 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | jcsav | 112658 | ||
You believe that God can dwell in all time and space and even dwell in more than one person at once. Yet, you can not understand how God can speak from heaven, desend like a dove and be a man at the same time. How can you believe the other things that God says if you can't believe him when he saids there is no saviour, but him and that there is no other God besides him? And if it is as you say, the term "Godhead is more than one person, Then that means that they all three dwelt in Jesus one body. What would that make him? You still did not give me the answer to my question on the signs that Jesus said would follow the Church. | ||||||
6 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | EdB | 112683 | ||
jcsav You said, "You believe that God can dwell in all time and space and even dwell in more than one person at once. Yet, you can not understand how God can speak from heaven, desend like a dove and be a man at the same time. How can you believe the other things that God says if you can't believe him when he saids there is no saviour, but him and that there is no other God besides him?" My friend that is the essence of the Trinity, God in three persons at the same time. With salvation only through belief in Jesus. Jesus when praying He had to be praying to someone besides Himself or are you suggesting He was talking to Himself? When Jesus committed his soul to His Father what was He doing? Speaking idle words? when Jesus talked He talked about the Father why? If there is no Father then what do we say, Jesus was just talking double talk? Then Jesus said I and the Father are One. Notice He didn't say are the same but rather One. One in unity, One in purpose, One in the Godhead. As for the signs of the church which you mentioned, I don't have a problem with what you listed but I fail to understand how they fit in this conversation. EdB |
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7 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | jcsav | 112686 | ||
My point is, follow the signs and you will find the True Doctrine and the True Church. And within these Churches you will find the "Body" of Christ. If you was in harmony with God then you would understand what I am saying. And if trinity was what the Bible teach. then you should find it within this Churches Doctrine. I was raised in trinity doctrine and I understand your confusion. Jesus said, no man knows the Father but the Son and whosoever he choses to reveal him. This is still in effect. You can not get it in much study. | ||||||
8 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | EdB | 112694 | ||
jcsav If your saying signs and wonders reveals the true church your sadly mistaken. The Mormon church has every sign and wonder your church has, and we both know it is not the true church. Signs and wonders are easily counterfeited by the adversary and we are told the closer we get to the second coming the more false signs and wonders we will see. Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' [23] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' As for being raised in the Trinity doctrine and now saying you understand my confusion. Is it not you that is confused going with every wind of doctrine that blows through the land? Since you quoted it let's look at this verse.Matthew 11:27 "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. If there is not Father and Son then what does Jesus mean when he says "handed over to me"? If what is He saying when Jesus said, "nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Is this double talk that no one can know Him unless He reveals Him. Read what it says No one know the Father unless teh Son reveals the Father to them. Again we see two separate personalities. EdB |
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9 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | jcsav | 112707 | ||
Jesus himself said it in Mar 16:17," And these signs shall follow them that believe; in my name shall they cast out devils, they shall speak with new tongues. And where in the world did you get that the Mormons was like us. I studied under the Mormons and even when to one of their baptisms. To answer your question on being deceived and the counterfeits of the adversary. Is it not written: Mark 13:22," False Christs (Messiahs) and false prophets will arise and show signs and (work) miracles to deceive and lead astray, IF POSSIBLE, even the elect (those God has chosen out of himself). As you can see it is not possible. As for you statement "If there is not Father and Son" I never said that. I said they do not have different personalities. If they have Separate personalities then show me in scripture where Jesus did his own will. Not that he had a will but that he did it. | ||||||
10 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | EdB | 112708 | ||
jcsav I did not say Mormons were like Oneness Pentecostals. I said Mormons move in signs and wonders yet they are false. I have seen Mormons speak in tongues and I have heard of them praying for and seeing dead rise before them. You use Mark 13:22 as proof you can't be deceived yet every denomination believes they are the elect, and therefore they are the ones that it is impossible to be deceive. Yet some believe in tongues and some don't, some beleive in the Trinity and some don't, Some believe in tongues and Trinity and some in Tongues and not the Trinity some in the Trinity and not tongues and some the not the Trinity yet not in the tongues. Signs and wonders do not prove you are the elect, it proves you move in signs and wonders only. How do you know those that speak in tongues and believe in the Trinity aren't the elect and your really the one deceived? Let's simplify this do you believe God the Father heard Jesus the Son's prayers at the time Jesus the Son was praying to God the Father? EdB |
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11 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | jcsav | 112712 | ||
I have never heard of that before and all the time I was with them they never mentioned that. We even discussed "Tongues" and their view was more like yours. And I was not aware that raising the dead was one of the signs for the believing. On the speaking in tongues, there have been those that came in among us that knew another language and used it to have us believe that it was the Holy Ghost. Not only can we tell the difference but we can tell when it is another Spirit. Our election don't lie with convencing men. God knows those that are his. Regardless how you fill about oneness the statement that I made about God's elect is Truth. Even the devil knows there is one God and do tremble at that fact. As to the answer to you last question, the answer is, Yes. The Father always heard Jesus prayer. |
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12 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | EdB | 112725 | ||
jcsav You said, "As to the answer to you last question, the answer is, Yes. The Father always heard Jesus prayer." I wouldn't say that too loud your starting to sound trinitarian. I would guess if you and I sat down you would find what you believe is closer to what I believe than what a true oneness person does. As for my view of tongues you have no idea of my view I have never expressed it on this forum. EdB |
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13 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | jcsav | 112745 | ||
And why would it surprise you for me to sound trinitarian? That Is what you hear when you read the Bible isn't it? As for your veiw on the tongues, I know what they are, and you have expressed it. As I said before, it is hard to fool us. You have been talking about some things that you don't fully understand. Things that you try to read-up on. I live them every day. You even spoke with an individual you say "use to be oneness".Those that go out of us, were never really of us. | ||||||
14 | Did you know... | Deut 6:4 | EdB | 112833 | ||
JCsav I'm sorry you either have me confused with someone else or your delusional. I have never expressed my opinion on tongues to you or anyone else on the forum that I recall. Secondly I never referred you to anyone. Friend I think you need to pull back take a deep breath. You say Jesus talked to God the Father and that is correct He did. That my friend is not the oneness position. EdB |
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