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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Greek help in translation anyone? | James 1:13 | RWC | 131785 | ||
Would the translation "God ought not to be tempted" be a more reasonable (or better) translation of the Greek in thsi verse instead of "God cannot be tempted"? Is there anyone out there with enough of a background in Greek to be able to offer a litle insight here? | ||||||
2 | Greek help in translation anyone? | James 1:13 | royfish306 | 131817 | ||
This is the most accurate Greek translation. It is impossible for God to be tempted. The word used in this verse is: á ðåé ñáóôïò apeirastos untried, that is, not temptable: not to be tempted. Webster's online dictionary defines tempt as: 1 : to entice to do wrong by promise of pleasure or gain 2 a obsolete : to make trial of : TEST b : to try presumptuously : PROVOKE c : to risk the dangers of 3 a : to induce to do something b : to cause to be strongly inclined God cannot sin, so He cannot be tempted to sin. TITUS 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 2 Timothy 2 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Hebrews 6 18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: A question though, why do you think this verse should be translated differently? royfish |
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3 | How do they go together? | James 1:13 | RWC | 131821 | ||
To answer your question first, I don't think that it should be translated any differently than it is commonly communicated in the major modern English versions. That translation was offered to me as a "possibly better" rendering of the text by someone whom I respect a great deal and who knows Greek far better than I (though he is no expert either and he would never suggest that he was). My guess is that he read a definition for apeirastos similar to the one you quoted (untried, that is, not temptable: not to be tempted) and then he grabbed on to the last part of the definition (not to be tempted) as a means to try to deal with this apparent contradiction. I told him at the time that I thought he was on pretty thin ice textually, but that I would think about it and research it a little. So that is where the Greek part of the question comes from. I still think he is on thin ice textually. I would like to ask you a question from your comments though. You wrote that "God cannot sin, so He cannot be tempted to sin." If that is true, exactly and litterally as you have put it, how do you understand verses and passages that say that Jesus was tempted (Mt. 4.1 and He. 4.15 for example)? |
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4 | How do they go together? | James 1:13 | DocTrinsograce | 131835 | ||
God can and is tempted. Christ was tempted. Temptation is, in and of itself, not sinful. The problem is how we define the word "tempt," (e.g., "Trying to get someone to do wrong, especially by a promise of reward.") In that strict sense of the word, tempting God is futile because He can do nothing contrary to His nature. The temptation of Christ, on the other hand, could have this meaning without doing harm to the scriptural narrative. However, the Greek word you guys are discussing is "peirazo." This word means to be scrutinized, examined, proven, tested, assayed. (We have to be very careful with our definitions. So much hangs on them!) We would use this word when we are talking about testing the quality of something in order to verify what it really is. God is peirazo every time we put our faith in Him. His nature and character are verified. However, there is a kind of tempting of God that is prohibited. That is the kind that tests His patience in the face of disobedience. That is the kind that we are sternly warned against. James in this passage is talking about that kind of temptation. When we enter into difficulties, that is when the true character is made manifest. He is saying that God uses the adversities we face to temper and prove the character He is building in us. |
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5 | So you tr: "God ought not to be tempted" | James 1:13 | RWC | 131844 | ||
There is much in your note with which I would heartily agree, but I am not entirely clear about your understanding of the Greek meaning of this word as it pertains to God in this verse. You wrote, "there is a kind of tempting of God that is prohibited. That is the kind that tests His patience in the face of disobedience." Then you add, "James in this passage is talking about that kind of temptation." Are you then in agreement with my friend's suggested translation of this verse as "God ought not to be tempted" (ie. God can be temptable, but we are not do it) or are you more inclined to stay with the common translation of "God cannot be tempted" (ie. God is untemptable)? Either option, of course, leads to further questions. A large part of the confusion that this passages causes, it seems to me, comes from the fact that this Greek word can have quite different meanings: *testing* meaning as you said "to be scrutinized, examined, proven, tested, assayed" and *tempting* meaning again as you said, "trying to get someone to do wrong, especially by a promise of reward." That confusion is made all the greater because, it seems, that at different places even within the context of this one passage (James chapter 1), both meanings are intended by the use of this one word. |
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6 | So you tr: "God ought not to be tempted" | James 1:13 | DocTrinsograce | 131856 | ||
This is what happens when I try to answer questions while my far-better-half is patiently waiting for us to go garage-saling. :-) I got some things mixed up, including the meaning of the Greek word! Sorry, RWC. Let's see if I can do a better job this time. I was trying to say the following: 1. We are commanded not to tempt God. A command implies the ability to obey or disobey. Therefore, it is possible for men to tempt God. (When anyone challenges His Holiness by rebellion, they are tempting God's patience.) 2. Christ was tempted. Christ is God. Therefore, God was tempted. These conclusions make it impossible for your friend's translation to stand. (Following is where I got two Greek words mixed up in my last post.) I agree that confusion arises out of the definition of the word "tempt." So let's look closely at the context. The first two appearances of the word "temptation" in James, prior to this verse, are in verse 2 and verse 12: "peirasmos." This could well be translated as "proven by being solicited to do evil" (and, according to Strong's, there is an implication of "by adversity"). (Boy I messed this up before!) Furthermore, there is the connotation of success in these words. That is why verse 1 mentions "joy" and verse 12 mentions "blessing." Verse 13 and 14 use a different Greek word: "peirazo" which means "to be scrutinized, examined, proven, tested, assayed." However, this word seems to have a negative connotation of failure. That is why verse 14 mentions being "drawn away" (i.e., from God). (If this latter kind of tempting results in being drawn away, then obviously this can't be the kind that Christ experienced, since He had no sin (Hebrews 4:15b).) Furthermore, look at the sentence in verse 13 that is translated by the KJV as "I am tempted of God." That little word "of" is the Greek word "apo." That word means "away from," but it is more active than it sounds in English; i.e., it implies agency. What the sentence really means is "I am being enticed away from God into sin by the agency of God." (I've heard some hyper-Calvinists actually say that when they sin, it is God's providential will (i.e., He is the cause) that they sin." James is clearly refuting this.) So, lets see if we can very literally translate this verse: "No man or woman should be allowed to say when they are enticed away into sin, 'God is enticing me to sin.' Because God is incapable of being enticed into sin, and He does not entice anyone into sin." See, all of God's actions toward us are for our good. When we are enticed by sin, God has not destined us to failure. Only good things come from God (verse 17). As Robert Jamieson puts it, "God does not send trials on you in order to make you worse, but to make you better (James 1:16-17). Therefore do not sink under the pressure of evils (1 Corinthians 10:13)." Well, I'm quite embarrassed by my previous post. Thank you for pointing out my inconsistencies! I am afraid that it will probably not be the last time I post something in error! Thank you, also, for your patience with me! In Him, Doc |
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7 | 1. logic? 2. differences with Eng. tr.? | James 1:13 | RWC | 131872 | ||
Hello Doc, If I may sir, I have two questions from your post. If I sound like "I am not getting it," I guess it is because I'm not. Please be patient with me. Question 1: How does your logic work here? You wrote that: 1. We are commanded not to tempt God. 2. Christ was tempted. Christ is God. Therefore, God was tempted. and then you say: "These conclusions make it impossible for your friend's translation to stand." But it sounds to me like your points 1 and 2 are *exactly* what my friend is trying to get this verse to say (that is, that we are being commanded not to tempt or test God: "God ought not to be tempted")! I don't think there is anything wrong with the statement biblically or theologically. I just am questioning whether it stands up textually in this verse. Question 2: Are you suggesting that textually this verse is not saying that God is untemptable (sorry for the double-negative), but rather that God cannot be tempted to the point of giving into sin? That seemed to be the point being emphasized by the literal translation that you offered for this verse, especially in light of your acknowledgment that God can be tempted. And if that is true (if that is what you see being said and emphasized in the text of this verse), then why do you suppose that none of the major English translations have translated it that way? They all seem to emphasize that God is untemptable. I hope I am not testing your patience with my questions. I'm just trying to understand. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this with me. |
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8 | 1. logic? 2. differences with Eng. tr.? | James 1:13 | royfish306 | 131875 | ||
I am encouraged by your persistance in reaching biblical truth. I find to this passage of James to reveal a great aspect of God's nature. A testimony to God's perfection. Of His goodness. God will necer tempt you to commit evil. Just as I cannot tempt you into becoming a pink panda bear, no one can tempt God to do evil. Becoming a pink panda is not a power that you have just as God is not able to commit evil. It is contradictory to his nature. I believe that is why this verse is consistently translated this way in the english, because it expresses a great truth. Also, I believe Matthew 4:7 Matthew 4 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. is enough scripture to let us know not to test God. Furthermore, incarnate Jesus had a duality of nature, fully both God and man. As a man Jesus was tempted Hebrews 4 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Because as a man he was able to sin. Answer back if you have any comments reguarding my response |
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