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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | Zsuzsi | 121801 | ||
Hi everyone, I have been reading your posts and this is my general answer to all of you: I agree that you need humility and subjection and patience and long-suffering when you are called by God... I also agree with the need for spiritual preparation before we get to His service. But I do think that sometimes 'staying under leadership' can do a person bad! If I had 'stayed under leadership' in submission, as you said, I would still be walking around kissing statues of saints, for example.. Mt 23:9: Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 1Jn 2:27: As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. Yes, learning is important, and listening to other people's opinion is also very important; it is true that only this way can we 'test our faith' (2Cor 13:5) - but nothing is worse than quenching the voice of the Holy Ghost for the sake of accepting some earthly teaching! We have to be careful not to judge the work of the Holy Spirit in another man, it is dangerous. We try to take out a mote from someone else's eye, but aren't we having a beam in our own? (Mt 7:3-5) I do realize the responsibility of being a 'minister' or 'ordained' and thorough study of God's Word is definitely required for His service. But in my opinion, no man has the authority to decide if God is calling another or not: it is a very personal issue, and it does happen at different times with different people. Maybe the called does not have the spiritual maturity right away, maybe he is even a 'blasphemer and persecutor' at the time he is called (1Tim 1:13), but I have no doubt that God's grace is enough to sustain anyone on his way... God teaches us humility and subjection in many different ways. One is actually to surrender to Him and forsake the opinion or approval of the world for His truth! If you are called, you are called and you must go... Even if it happens in your youth: "Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example of those who believe." 1Tim 4:12 There are false teachers in the world whom we should keep away from. We are not to 'tolerate fools gladly'! (2Cor 11:19) "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." 2Cor 11:14. But by studying God's Word, that becomes quite clear as well... We know the good tree from its good fruit. (Lk 6:43) Please do not misunderstand me, I am not questioning the authority of the church; but the authority of the church is not above the authority of Christ in any way! (Eph 5:23-24) Additionally, 'humbleness' (or 'humility') is the opposite of pride, it means believing you are not important (dictionary definition); 'submittance' and 'patience' are accepting other's decisions over you without grudging. None of those words reflect an attitude of mistrust towards the Holy Spirit within us... Paul says he 'humbled himself' so others may be exalted (2Cor 11:7).. Although he did accept persecution and suffering (humbleness, patience and submittance), never once did he say 'no' to his calling for the sake of obeying others (faith, trust, hope)! And we are to be imitators of him, according to 1Cor 4:16. In my opinion, we must 'allow' God to choose any man at any time for His service, no matter their age or academic background whatsoever! And the task of the church is to "Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions." (Romans 14:1). Yes, there is certainly a lot of pride in saying things like 'I am accountable to only God', but the task of the church or any group of believers is to teach God's Word and not to scare people away from it... Is trying to convince someone that he is not called -without Biblical reference- a proof of Christ dwelling in us? Constructive criticism would help a lot more! If anyone is unsure about ourfathersheart's calling, let us pray for him instead of judging a person we know nothing about! This dialogue seems to be going just wrong... Where is the peace Jesus left to us? (Jn 14:27) Also, may I ask: where does the Bible warn against being a 'lone ranger'? God bless you all, Zsuzsi |
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2 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | kalos | 122182 | ||
You write: 'The authority of the church is not above the authority of Christ in any way!' I agree, but also consider this. The authority of the individual believer is not above the authority of the church in any way. Moreover, the authority of the church is not in conflict with the authority of Christ. The church IS the body of Christ. The church receives its authority from Christ. The concept of two authorities, that of Christ and that of the church, being separated and in conflict with each other is not a biblical concept. |
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3 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | Zsuzsi | 122241 | ||
Thank you for all three of your messages, Kalos. I apologize for not having replied to you personally before, but I thought I answered your earlier comment in my response to Justme. Yes, I absolutely agree, "the church" is the body of Christ - and I also agree that "the church" is never separated from or in conflict with Him. But I think the major question is what we actually mean by "the church"... Is "the church" merely a financial institution to pay the salaries of "ordained" pastors? Is it some political or social authority to enforce certain rules on people? Is "the church" really the legal organization which calls itself "the true church of Christ", condemning to hell all those who do not belong to it? Or is Christ's Church rather the living community of ALL worshippers who belong to the Lord, united in the Spirit of Love, co-operating with one another to build the kingdom of God? Getting a bit more personal about this, do you believe that "the church" or Jesus Himself should forbid me to spread the Gospel to my non-Christian classmates and friends, both in words and actions, just because I am only 16 and have not been 'authorized' by a church in a formal 'ordination' ceremony to do so? I have no certificate in theology (yet) and I possess no legal right whatsoever to claim that I am a 'missionary' or a 'preacher' - but has the Lord not given me authority, or even an obligation, to do my best to make good use of the spiritual gifts He has blessed me with? I do study, to make my service to Him more efficient. But I do not believe it is His will that I (or anyone) should stop 'preaching' just because I am not formally ordained. "So in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully." Romans 12:5-8 "There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it." Ephesians 4:4-7 As I said in my reply to Justme, I believe the question is not whether we are called but what we are called to do. I do disapprove of 'Christians' who go about prophesying and teaching things that never came from God, for their own selfish purposes (eg. earning money for their online 'service')... But will their teachings not be futile and controversial because of the absence of God? (1Tim 1:3-7) Additionally, do we not need to be empowered by the Holy Spirit to perservere in doing what God has called us to do? (Isaiah 40:30-31) If someone is not a Christian, he will obviously not go around preaching things about the Bible and Jesus (Mark 9:40). If nevertheless someone is a Christian (by which I mean "born of water and the Spirit" - John 3:5), I trust in the guiding power of the Holy Spirit to convince him of his calling (eg. Philippians 2:13; see also Romans 8). Possessing the gifts of the Holy Ghost is NOT the same as possessing a manmade certificate about it... Being Christian, whether a pastor or a toilet cleaner, is 24-hour service, 365 days a year. Concentrating too much on church formalities and far too little on the Lord Himself has resulted in the painful wounds in Christ's Body... Only when ALL members, not just the ordained pastors, are individually in but not of the world, ALL being made one in the Spirit, will "the" church of Christ function to His good pleasure. Or at least that's what I believe. May God bless you, Zsuzsi |
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