Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What?!? | 1 Tim 2:14 | djconklin | 29804 | ||
How does this fit in Paul's arguement? I have yet to see it adequately explained and I read some 4,500 pages by very good scholars on this issue! | ||||||
2 | What?!? | 1 Tim 2:14 | Morant61 | 29820 | ||
Greetings Djconklin! I hope you had a great Christmas and New Years! Here are some comments that I posted on this passage back in August. I would not be dogmatic on the point, but this "take" seems to make the best sense of the context and argument. ****************************************** I am still working through this very difficult passage, but let me give you a brief summary of what I think this passage is saying. I haven't settled on this interpretation yet, but I am leaning toward it. There are a couple of givens that must be considered as we look at this passage. 1) God created man and woman equal. The word used to describe Eve is an "equal power." When Adam named the animals, he found no suitable partner, so God created a partner for him. 2) Scripture constantly affirms that women are equal to men spiritually. Contrary to their culture, Christians allowed and encouraged women to take part in minsitry. There are numerous examples of this. 3) The word "quiet" here refers to a settled or peaceful spirit, not a lack of talking. 4) The word "authority" refers a "taking of power." 5) The passage mentions children, so I think it is refering to husbands and wives. I can go into more detail on these points later, but with them in mind, here is my summary statement. Many at Ephesus seemed to have fallen under the influence of some false teachers. The women in particular seemed to have been guilty of this. In fact, they may have been among the leader in promoting the false teachings. The false teachings seemed to have revolved around the role of women in the church. It may have been that the women were being taught to abandon their traditional roles altogether in order to be saved. Thus Paul's basic argument could be understood in the following way. Women are to be submissive to their leaders and their husbands, not unruly. It is not right to attempt to wrest power away from those who are legitimately exercising it. In fact, they should learn quietly from these leaders. After all, look at what happened to Eve when she got out of bounds. So instead of abandoning your role in your family, you will find salvation, as you fulfill that role. Not meaning that they are saved through it, but they are saved, while living it. This is a very rough sketch. I certainly don't have all of the answers. This passage has been an extremely difficult one throughout the history of the church. Almost every commentator you check will have a different take on it. But this seems to make sense of the context of the passage and the balance of Scripture. ****************************************** Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | What?!? | 1 Tim 2:14 | djconklin | 29859 | ||
Tim, Thanks for your comments. A couple of clarifications: Eve is according to the Hebrew an "helpmeet" not an "equal power". While there is evidence of women being prophets within the early church, witnessing to others and being deaconesses (our word) there is no evidence of any woman having a leadership role in ministry. You are somewhat correct about the word "authentien" (from which we get our word 'authentic", btw); it means "to usurp authority"--how the KJV translators knew that is a bit os a mystery. The problem I have with this partiucular verse is that on the face of it man should be the last one trusted since he knew he was wrong whereas Eve was at least deceived. A thought that just came to me is that perhaps we need to look at what Paul is not saying (i.e., that what we have is an argument in capsule form here.). If Adam had exercised his leadership role then Eve would not have been deceived and there would have been no sin in the first place. |
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4 | What?!? | 1 Tim 2:14 | Morant61 | 29900 | ||
Greetings Djconklin! "Helpmeet" is the KJV translation of 'ezeer'. This word is used 21 times in the OT, all but a couple are in reference to the strength of God. Therefore, Walter Kaiser, Jr. has purposed the following translation of Gen. 2:18 - "I will make a power corresponding to man." This even makes sense of the context, where Adam is naming the animals and is unable (Gen. 2:20) to find a "power" corresponding to him. The word never referred to an inferior, but always to someone of equal or greater power who is able to help. Concerning the line of thought, I don't think Paul was trying to excuse Adam - since he puts the weight of the fall fully on his shoulders in other verses. I think he was simply responding to an attempt by certain wives to usurp their husband's proper authority, and Paul simply uses Eve to remind them of what can happen. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | What?!? | 1 Tim 2:14 | djconklin | 29963 | ||
Tim, I wouldn't say that "help-meet" implies inferiority in any sense of the word. It interesting to note, as you have, that the same word to describe Eve is also used to describe God. I think I can agree with you summation; I just wish that Paul; had been more clear. From what I have read by many scholars when they looked at this verse and its surrrounding context they were certainly confused and gave very unclear counsel in regards to it all. |
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6 | What?!? | 1 Tim 2:14 | Morant61 | 30025 | ||
Greetings Djconklin! Alas, there are definitely parts of Scripture that we would have cleared up if we could! But, then there would probably be 1000 times the confusion! :-) I think this in definitely one of those instances where the occasional nature of Paul's epistles makes it very difficult to understand. He and his audience were both very clear on what issue Paul was addressing, while we are left to guess. However, the main point seems to be fairly clear! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | What?!? | 1 Tim 2:14 | djconklin | 30074 | ||
Tim, I must confess that since I have put some more thought into it I'm going to have to back off accepting your version of what is being said. This is because it basically ignores what the text says. Paul's point seems to be on who knew what when being tempted. BTW, thanks for the kind spirit of your responses--it is a real breath of fresh air! |
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