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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Biblical era culture, abd Understanding | 1 Tim 2:12 | justme | 161419 | ||
Doc: The issue I have with some of what you say, is there is no attempt to seek a meeting of the minds. I respect your views, but it comes accross that you are right, and the final authority. I had hoped for a kinder dialogue. You are correct that culture should not dictate our understanding of Scripture. However without understanding the culture in the time of the writtings of Scripture, we are left to assume that the culture was inspired, which it was not. My "arguement" is not an arguement it is a observation. I have witnessed the missapplication of Scripture to put a heavy burden on fellow believers, by well meaning teachers. By taking cultural settings in the Bible and applied them to believers today. That was and is my point. I am puzzled how we have some of the most skilled Doctors, Seminary Proffessors, Missionaries, and the list goes on, who are women, and yet some churches would have such people sit quietly in the church, with no use for their wisdom. I am not advocating headship over a male, simply the recognization of equality in spiritual gifts, and abilities. I offer my response in kindness, respect, and a dialogue in Christian Love. I would consider myself as the person that James speaks about as being asked to give up his seat for a more wealthy person. The word picture I am attempting to paint is, You have asked me to get out of the furthest back roe "knowledge seat" and you expect your widsom to take the final word. Is nothing correct but your view? To this I would say that fokes dont care how much you know; until people how much you care. I think I have been put down, and my intention was not to challenge but to dialogue. Blessings. justme |
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2 | Biblical era culture, abd Understanding | 1 Tim 2:12 | DocTrinsograce | 161425 | ||
Dear Justme, I do not intend to come across as "the final authority" -- God forbid! Scripture is the final authority. I can only say authoritatively what the Scripture teaches. Sound doctrine rarely feels "kind" -- indeed Scripture reproves, rebukes, and corrects (2 Ti 3:15-16). The kindest thing I know to do is to point people to the Word of God. I do so out of a genuine desire to see Him glorified (2 Th 3:1) and His flock, whom I love, fed (Jn 21:17). You wrote, "...without understanding the culture in the time of the writtings of Scripture, we are left to assume that the culture was inspired..." (sic) On what basis would we make such an assumption? The theocracy of the Hebrews was inspired because it came directly from the hand of God. No where do we find culture being elevated as having authority. On the contrary, as has been affirmed, the instances where culture and the Word of God meet, we find the application of the principles of the Word to be independent of its cultural context. We have explicit examples of that in the Word. I trust that I have not led anyone to make the assumption that culture was inspired -- neither the cultures of the ancients nor our own. You wrote, "I have witnessed the missapplication of Scripture to put a heavy burden on fellow believers, by well meaning teachers. By taking cultural settings in the Bible and applied them to believers today. That was and is my point." (sic) Interesting observation. I've only encountered that in churches that required men to wear suits and women to wear dresses on the Lord's day. However, the desire to turn Scriptural principles into normative rules of behavior is a difficult thing to resist. I had a pastor friend who used to call that the Christian Mishnah. :-) After you make this observation you then critique churches that have women "sit quietly in the church" failing to recognize the "equality in spiritual gifts." I might find your position more persuasive but for the fact that Scripture very explictly states the venues in which women ought to teach and in which they ought not teach. Why use the gift passages to override the explicit passages? Why use the ancient culture to negate the explicit passage? (Frankly, if we have that authority, we could use culture to negate ANY passage.) There is something called the "Harmony of the Scriptures." In theological circles you'll hear the phrase "the Analogy of Faith." This is a necessary tenet of the belief in the plenary verbal inspiration of the Scriptures: i.e., God does not contradict Himself. The old divines put it this way, "The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself; and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched by other places that speak more clearly. (2 Pt 1:20, 21; Ac 15:15-16)" Making the gift passages your foundation for women teaching and preaching to the congregation, places you on shifting sand. If we want to have a "true and full sense" of what God wants us to understand about women in the congregation, look to the places that speak clearly to that question. When you do that, no one will be able to contend with you, because then -- and only then -- will you have the solid rock of the Word of God on which to stand. You wrote, "You have asked me to get out of the furthest back roe "knowledge seat" and you expect your widsom to take the final word." (sic) I have done no such thing, ma'am. I have merely expounded the Scripture. I love you and I will pray for you, but your response to the Word of God is entirely a matter between you and the One Who will judge you. I make no insistence of how you behave in your local congregation. You wrote, "I think I have been put down." That is unfortunate. You speak of your intentions in posting, therefore I have felt the freedom to do the same. (See above.) If I lacked respect for you, I would not have bothered to respond. There is no more kind, respectful, or loving thing that one human being can do for another than to help them hear the intended message of the Word of God, which affords opportunity for the Holy Spirit to illumine their heart and mind with the Truth. I would posit, therefore, ma'am, that your emotional response is misdirected. The Word of God is God's Truth (Jn 17:17), without respect to how we may feel about it. There are things in my own life that the Scriptures prevent me from doing as I would like to do. That is not the fault of the Scriptures. Indeed, a careful understanding of the Scriptures helps me to understand how to do what I CAN do in the way that the Lord wants me to do it for His glory and the furtherance of His Kingdom. When I do things His way, then I accomplish an infinitely greater amount of good than I might if I do things my way. God is quite particular about doing things His way (Lv 10:1-11). In Him, Doc |
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3 | Biblical era culture, abd Understanding | 1 Tim 2:12 | justme | 161449 | ||
Doc: We each must stand accountable for the way we live. I am glad that even in disagreement over secondary issues that are not dependant upon salvation we can still have communion in Christ. I personally have issues with fellow believers in the Word of faoth movement. None the less there are genuine believers in WOF. The same is true for other denominations. I feel it is easy to get side tracked into disfellowshiping ourselves from others over secondary issues. I see you have some very solid valid points, and upon those points I would stand with you. On lesser issues , I can stand alone until the Holy Spirit convicts me otherwise. I thank you for responding. Peace and blessings. justme |
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4 | Biblical era culture, abd Understanding | 1 Tim 2:12 | DocTrinsograce | 161455 | ||
Dear Justme, Thank you for your comments. When the Holy Spirit convicts, it will always be on the basis of the Word of God. God bless you as you seek to conform your thoughts to His. In Him, Doc PS Our discussion brought to mind a quote from one of my favorite US Presidents: "There are those who believe that a new modernity demands a new morality. What they fail to consider is the harsh reality that there is no such thing as a new morality. There is only one morality. All else is immorality. There is only true Christian ethics over against which stands the whole of paganism.... We must return to the old morality, the sole morality." --Franklin Roosevelt |
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