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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Biblical - women preachers/teachers??? | 1 Tim 2:12 | JCrichton | 123588 | ||
"But obviously in our modern culture it is not disgraceful at all any more" Hi, Zsuzsi! It was never about cultural values... the purity was mandated by God. He said at one time: "thou shall not kill." That has never changed. He commanded the people of Israel to stay pure; that too has never changed! God is not a cultural fad! Here's how much He cared about doing things his way (I will give you only the examples--as I am falling asleep I can't recall the passages exactly; but if you need to have them, just ask!): *One of Aaron sons brought a strange fire into the service--Yahweh struck him dead! *When returning the Arc one of the servants of David touched the Arc because it seem to be about to fall--Yahweh struck him dead! Those were diffent times... but the penalty for sin is constant: death (Romans 6:23). Can God choose a woman to guide His people? Yes! Did God choose woman to guide His people? No! It is interesting that with the "modernization" of society "Christians" want to modernize the Bible! The promise was made to Abraham not to his wife! The chosing of the Twelve was among men not women or unisex! True, women in the Bible and in society have a value in the ministries of our Lord. But they are not placed above men as far as responsibility and authority in the Church is concerned! We can, and many "Christians" have, negate the Word while giving credence to society's values (separation of Church and state--which just means removing God from a visible position in society; homosexuality as a "lifestyle" approved by some congregations as ordained and blessed by God; abortion as a form of respect for women's rights--actually means: fornicate, fornicate, fornicate (the product of such liberal "lifestyle" is an excellent source of medical research and development: kill in the name of justice and justify by capitalizing on the spoils!); there are so many more examples... like the various states world-wide who are constitutionalizing the eradication of the Bible...), as I said, we are voiding the Word of God to serve the creatures rather than the Creator. You have a strong understanding of the Word, please do not let emotions and false justification derail you! God Bless! Angel |
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2 | Biblical - women preachers/teachers??? | 1 Tim 2:12 | Zsuzsi | 123607 | ||
Hi Angel, Thanks for your reply, especially that you took the time to write it even though you were falling asleep... Well I must say I disagree with many of your points. For example: yes, God did command that people must not kill - He said it as a very general statement, not specifying whom He was referring to. Yet it was He Himself who commanded certain people to be killed (I can also give you Bible references, there are many examples): lawbreakers, worshippers of idols, people of other nations etc. His people had to choose to obey His specific command in each case, rather than the generalized one... If He was allowed to so "change His Mind", I do not see why He should not be allowed to call women to His service when times have obviously changed. Secondly, I do not think "ministry service" (being a pastor, passing one's knowledge on to those in need, whether men or women) is equivalent to "usurping" authority over people in any way. I would personally consider it "service" to the Lord and to humanity, which requires serious dedication, persesrverance and humbleness. It is not about what titles we stick on the door of one's office - it's about how people get closer to Christ by us being there for them. Thirdly, if we are to take this passage separately from its context and accept it as you are suggesting we should, we see that Paul is talking about ALL forms of teaching or having authority - 1Tim 2 has actually nothing to do with church organization at all... That would mean that my mother, for example, who is a biophysicist and has male PhD students every year is sinning by simply teaching or guiding them... Priscilla herself would also have sinned by teaching Apollos - Paul never condemned her. Not to mention, of course, I would have been sinning by "teaching" on this forum and everywhere else, I would actually be sinning even right now by writing this to you! Taking this verse by itself would simply tell us that the true Christian lifestyle is against gender-equality, we are to be anti-feminists and discriminating. Now I do not believe it was even close to either God's or Paul's intentions to create that picture of the ideal Christian community... Approving of women taking the position to which they are entitled in the Body of Christ is, in my opinion, not even similar to approving of homosexuality or abortion. About the relationship between the church and state I am again on a different opinion but I will not elaborate that now in detail. But since this question is so personal to me, I must accept that you can probably remain much more objective about it than I can... Indeed it is hard to ignore the quite strong emotions which statements that belie my own calling raise in me. I hope you can understand that. But of course it is not about how I feel - it is about discerning, without false justifications, what vocation God has intended me to have. Honestly I would rather be a toilet-cleaner all my life than grieve the Lord by becoming something I am not authorized to become... So I think I will now go on a few days' quiet retreat to seek the will of God before I start debating with you or anyone (especially older men!) about this issue. I would really appreciate prayers... May God bless you, and thank you again for your concern for my spiritual development, Zsuzsi |
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3 | Biblical - women preachers/teachers??? | 1 Tim 2:12 | JCrichton | 123631 | ||
Hi, Zsuzsi! I am not suggesting that females are to be treated as second class Christians. Neither did Paul suggest such thing, after all, who was charged with instructing the children?: If a widow has children or grandchildren, they are to learn first of all to do their duty to their own families... (1 Timothy 5:4) True the widowed was no longer bonded to her husband, but her responsibility to the family--which would extend to the Church--was not dissolved with the death of her husband! And that responsibility included instructing the children, both male and female! "I do not see why He should not be allowed to call women to His service when times have obviously changed." This would imply that God consciously selected only "male" servants to appease man. It would also suggest that God approved of man's chauvinism, and that now, since society has deemed females to be equal to males, God has seen the way and welcomes female priestesses and preachers to serve the Church. This reasoning would make God as changeable and as incompetent as society, which celebrates homosexuality, upholds racial discrimination, exalts wealth, discards human life... "Taking this verse by itself would simply tell us that the true Christian lifestyle is against gender-equality, we are to be anti-feminists and discriminating." Here's Paul take on that: Husbands should love their wives, just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her. (Ephesians 5:25) Are Christians commanded to love only their wives and to discriminate against all other females? That is not the preaching of the Bible! Christians are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the Church! How can there be love without respect? How can one Christian love his wife and consider himself above all other females just because they are not his wife? Seemingly society has bested Christianity… then should we emulate society?: So this I say to you and attest to you in the Lord, do not go on living the empty-headed life that the gentiles live. Intellectually they are in the dark, and they are estranged from the life of God, because of the ignorance which is the consequence of closed minds. Their sense of right and wrong once dulled, they have abandoned all self-control and pursue to excess every kind of uncleanness. (Ephesians 4:17-19) We can witness this abandonment more pronouncedly in the entertainment industry: Females are demoralizing themselves just as badly as when they were demoralized by men just a decade or so ago (this includes even the top “talents“)! How does achieving “actor” status raises the female value when actresses gleefully sink to the same depths that they were forced to inhabit when it was an all “male” controlled environment? And how does sexually provocative acts, on stage or on video, demonstrates a superior singing talent or voice quality in today‘s female performer? Equality in human terms means the freedom to debase ourselves at equal levels. Equality in God’s terms means that we are all loved equally, regardless of our gender, ethnicity, and status! In Christianity, there’s a built-in equality that the world could never achieve: so Jesus called them to him and said to them, ‘You know that among the gentiles those they call their rulers lord it over them, and their great men make their authority felt. Among you this is not to happen. No; anyone who wants to become great among you must be your servant, and anyone who wants to be first among you must be slave to all. For the Son of man himself came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.’ (Mark 10:42-45) I do not presume to have all the answers… But I know that, in Christ, you are just as important as the wisest of all human alive! Your age matters not to God, nor does your gender. But we are called to serve in God’s terms. I cannot determine your calling, nor am I attempting to dissuade you from what you understand your calling to be… who knows, perhaps God will use you to provoke jealousy in the minds and hearts of all who are serving in mediocrity--that they may wake up from their stupor and preach and live Jesus and unite His Church! My prayers are with you! God Bless! Angel |
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