Results 1 - 7 of 7
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | Makarios | 23069 | ||
Dear charis, No, no, no.. I believe that you have completely misunderstood me.. It would help to clarify if you told me what you believe about baptism. From your responses, I would come to the conclusion that you believe that baptism by water is essential to salvation. I would strongly disagree with you there, my friend. Water baptism is a command that the Lord has given us (Matt. 28:19, Acts 2:38) and we undergo it through obedience to Him and for proclaiming to the world that we are now His. That is what makes water baptism special, and the same goes for circumcision. Its not the outward affirmation that takes place (water baptism) that saves us. It is the inner transformation inside of our souls- that is what saves us!!! Look at the criminal on the cross: did he have a chance to be baptized by water? No, he did not. So was he saved? Yes, he was! (Luke 23:39-43). I believe that I made it explicitly clear in my last note, but I will simply have to try again. Both of these baptisms- Baptism by the Holy Spirit and baptism by fire, are both encompassed together as one baptism, one washing, that takes place at the moment of salvation. Yes, they are all equally effective before the Lord, but they act upon the believer as one baptism, one washing (Eph. 4:5), which occurs at the moment of salvation. You asked, "Is the baptism of fire constant?" The process of sanctification begins after the moment of salvation, and there is no need for us to be constantly re-baptized by fire.. No, the baptism by fire is not "constant", but our hearts are forever changed! Yes, water baptism is not something that is essential. Charis, water baptism is not essential for salvation. I don't know how much clearer I can be than that. Yes, I believe that the baptism by the Holy Spirit is synonymous with salvation, since we can only be baptized by the Holy Spirit if we come to salvation in our Lord, and we cannot attain salvation unless we also undergo baptism by the Holy Spirit (John 3). I have come to the conclusion a long time ago that we undergo one washing, one baptism at the moment of salvation. Water baptism is important, but it is not a prerequisite for salvation. And until you can prove me wrong by using Scripture, then I will hold to that belief. Nolan |
||||||
2 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | charis | 23136 | ||
Dear Nolan, Greetings in the name of Jesus! Yes, yes, yes! :-) Please do not put me in the camp of those that 'require' things, my friend. I have never said anything of the sort. I believe that we are justified by grace through faith. On the other hand, you seem to be saying that there is no ongoing cleansing or sanctification at all. I find this goes against the 'sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit' (1 Peter 1:2) that we observe in many saints. In fact, few show forth 'completed sanctification' upon confession of Christ. Some change quickly, some take longer, some have up and downs, and some never show forth any fruit of this cleansing. I believes this apparent reality shows that the Spirit *begins* His holy work in our lives at *that moment,* AND continues to sanctify us as we 'work out our salvation with fear and trembling.' (Philippians 2:12) I must say that you said in this post, and in several others, the word 'begin,' which would imply that you also believe in a 'beginning, a during, and an ending.' You ask for my opinion: I see that the Lord indeed starts His work in our lives by the initial cleansing work of the Holy Spirit. God also 'asks us to submit' to water baptism, for OUR benefit, as a strength and a seal upon the things that have already begun. At times, the Lord also sends a 'refining fire' into our lives, again for our benefit and cleansing. This baptism of fire can be sent to us as many times as He sees fit. The result is three baptisms in the New Testament that sanctify our lives. Each is important and effective. They work in tandem, and all seem to be that which God desires in our walk in Him. None seem to be optional, to be done in accord with our will, for our purposes. One thing you said about water baptism, that is is a sign to the world of our faith. Then why do it in church? The world is not watching there. So this makes it only a symbol for the benefit of the saved community, which sounds like church membership to me. :-) Friend, I don't have anything to prove to you! I only pray that your water baptism is more effective than you think it is. :-) Blessings, peace and love in Christ Jesus, charis |
||||||
3 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | Makarios | 23142 | ||
Greetings charis, I thank you for presenting yourself a little more clearly. :-) I never said nor hinted that the process of sanctification was not an ongoing process (1 Peter 1:2, Phil. 2:12). In fact, I agree! And I believe that this process has a beginning at salvation and an end, when the Lord completes the work that He has started in us. However, I believe that at the moment of salvation, a believer experiences the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism by fire, which would constitute 'one baptism'. As for subsequent baptisms by fire throughout our lives that help us to be cleansed from sin- I have always believed that this is only the process of sanctification working itself out in our lives rather than us going through other subsequent baptisms. But I appreciate your point of view and I'll have to consider what you believe, although I disagree with it in light of Eph. 4:5. I believe that all three forms of baptism (fire, Holy Spirit, and water) are effective as you do, even though I believe that water baptism is not entirely essential to complete our spiritual walk in Him. Yes, water baptism is very important and we must do it because we are commanded to. And, like you've already stated, it is entirely for OUR benefit. But I believe that water baptism, in and of itself, is just a public affirmation and declaration of the Spiritual baptism that has already occurred within. Yes, water baptism is a sign to the world of our faith. Why do we do it in church, you ask?? Good question!! It is really a symbol for society as a whole, my friend, not just the church for church membership! :-) Friend, I have nothing at all to prove to you either! I only pray that you and I could see the truth as to what Scripture says concerning baptism. :-) And yes, I know just how effective my baptism is, thank you. Nolan |
||||||
4 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | charis | 23151 | ||
Dear Nolan, Blessings in the name of Jesus. I guess that I am just wrestling with 'not entirely essential' but 'effective.' :-) Love and peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
||||||
5 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | Makarios | 23152 | ||
Thank you charis! Blessings to you as well, and I appreciate this time to re-visit some of these 'fine points' of baptism that I have already seemed to 'settle' in my own mind. My own interpretation is only seen through my eyes and it is always invaluable to see the view from someone else's viewpoint, my friend. I apologize if I may have seemed a little 'defensive' when considering my baptism. Thank you! Love and peace in Christ, Nolan |
||||||
6 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | charis | 23170 | ||
Dear Nolan, Greetings from Yokohama in Jesus' name! No apology is ever necessary, my friend! In fact, I was ruder than I intended to be regarding your baptism experience. I think I should have added that EVERY experience in the Lord IS more than we think! :-) I'm sorry, dear brother in the Lord. Your love and peace received, and returned 'with interest!' :-) In Christ Jesus, charis |
||||||
7 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | Makarios | 23173 | ||
Greetings Randy, my dear Brother in Christ! I sincerely forgive you for any rudeness whatsoever, my friend! You are absolutely right- Every experience in the Lord is more than we could ever think or imagine. I sincerely forgive you and do not think any less of you.. I appreciate you returning my love and peace 'with interest'! :-) We will have to chat sometime. Your servant in Christ, Nolan |
||||||