Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | N.T. circumcision? | Col 2:12 | Makarios | 22897 | ||
Greetings charis! The removal of our old sinful nature, which is in rebellion against God is illustrated in verse 11 in the rite of circumcision and in baptism. However, it is accomplished by a spiritual circumcision and baptism by the Holy Spirit, not through water baptism. I believe that THIS is the sign of the New Covenant and this is the circumcision of the heart (Spirit baptism), that occurs at the moment of salvation. I believe that this Spirit baptism would also fulfill Deut. 30:6. I do not believe that water baptism, in and of itself, is a fulfillment of the Old Testament command. Excellent quote of Jeremiah 4:4!! Your Brother in Christ, Nolan |
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2 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | charis | 22989 | ||
Dear Nolan, Greetings in Jesus' name! Are you then saying that both water baptism AND baptism of the Holy Spirit are integral parts of this 'migration' from the Old Testament to the New Testament? I think the problem may be that we try to separate the three baptisms as completely different things. (sorry, I don't count 'baptism for the dead' among the 'pertinent' baptisms) Perhaps, if we look at if from the viewpoint of the writer of Hebrews, we may see that all three baptism are 'washings,' to the New Testament believer, and together they work to the end of sanctification. In this way, all three participate in our 'circumcision of heart,' and fulfil the promise and the command. My friend, I bring this forth humbly, as to one that has just recently made a decision to be baptised. :-) To reject water baptism as nothing to do with Colossians 2:11 and 12 seems out of order with the Scriptures. In Christ Jesus, charis |
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3 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | Makarios | 23021 | ||
Greetings charis! Let me give you my point of view, the point of view of one who has been recently baptised! :-) Water baptism is not completely excluded from the meaning expressed in Colossians 2:11 and 12.. We are commanded to baptize and be baptized (Matt. 28:19, Acts 2:38). Water baptism is important because it is our outward affirmation and a public declaration of the inner transformation that has already been accomplished. We are, in effect, making a confession that Jesus Christ is Lord during water baptism (Romans 10:9,13), since this publicly symbolizes that our allegiance is now with Christ. With all that said, just as circumcision symbolized man's need for the cleansing of his heart (Deut. 10:16; 30:6; Jer. 4:4; 9:26; Acts 7:51), it was the outward sign of that inward cleansing that came by faith in God. Water baptism symbolizes man's burial of his old sinful nature and raising with Christ through having faith in Him. At salvation, the sinful nature is crucified, dead and buried, resulting in a new birth, a spiritual "circumcision", a new creation in being converted by grace through faith. This inner transformation that occurs at salvation is being "born again" (John 3), it is the Baptism by the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11) and the Baptism by fire (Matthew 3:12, Luke 2:35, Isaiah 6:6-7, 1 Peter 3:21). Through the Baptism by fire, we have cleansing from sin. Through the Baptism by the Holy Spirit, we have been raised with Christ as "partakers" of His death, burial and Resurrection! And we have been born again as new creatures under a new covenant, a new allegiance, and a new eternity! This occurs at Salvation with one Lord, one faith, one baptism (Eph. 4:5), that being the Baptism of Jesus Christ! This one baptism encompasses the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Baptism by fire, which happens at the same instant (salvation) as one baptism, by which a believer is placed into the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:11-13). Water baptism is included in Colossians 2:11 and 12 simply because it is symbolic and a reminder of the baptism that occurred at salvation. Water baptism is a public declaration of what being baptized in Jesus' name is all about: that we are now under the spiritual authority of Christ, since He has made all of this possible by His saving grace. We mustn't feel as if we absolutely need to undergo water baptism, but we must be baptized under the authority of Jesus Christ (Spiritual baptism, also known as salvation) if we ever hope to reach heaven. However, we must continue to practice water baptism so that we can publically declare to the world and to all the principalities and spiritual forces that we are now a child of God and saved by His grace. Now, since Hebrew babies were circumcised as infants (Phil. 3:5), does this mean that the baptism of infants is also entirely warranted? That is an entirely different question, my friend! :-) Blessings to you, Nolan |
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4 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | charis | 23022 | ||
Dear Nolan, Greetings in Jesus' name! Perhaps it is just your use of the word 'symbolic,' but I will have to disagree with you. If water baptism is 'just a symbol,' and does not truly accomplish any spiritual thing, then it is meaningless except in the sight of man. We must either say that it is something, or it is not anything! Obedience and submission, must be 'worth' something to the Lord, or we discount any efficacy of entering the waters of baptism. Honestly, I do not get what you mean by saying that baptism in the Holy Spirit is automatic to all who have faith in Christ, then we have the baptism of fire. Is the baptism of fire constant, or a point or points in time? What is the purpose? Are there 3 washings, or 2, or just one? If there are three, are they not all equally important and effective before the Lord? My friend, did you really mean to say, "We mustn't feel as if we absolutely need to undergo water baptism, but we must be baptized under the authority of Jesus Christ (Spiritual baptism, also known as salvation) if we ever hope to reach heaven." ? So the baptism of the Holy Spirit is synonymous with salvation? Or justification? Or sanctification? And water baptism is just an option? Hmmm... I have come to the conclusion that all three washings are co-equally effective before God, each one integrally important for our sanctification. I do not think that it is a 'one-shot' thing, that 'happens' upon confessing Jesus as Savior, and we get baptized if we want to, and that life after is a big baptism of fire. I must go now. Take good care. In Christ Jesus, charis |
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5 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | Makarios | 23069 | ||
Dear charis, No, no, no.. I believe that you have completely misunderstood me.. It would help to clarify if you told me what you believe about baptism. From your responses, I would come to the conclusion that you believe that baptism by water is essential to salvation. I would strongly disagree with you there, my friend. Water baptism is a command that the Lord has given us (Matt. 28:19, Acts 2:38) and we undergo it through obedience to Him and for proclaiming to the world that we are now His. That is what makes water baptism special, and the same goes for circumcision. Its not the outward affirmation that takes place (water baptism) that saves us. It is the inner transformation inside of our souls- that is what saves us!!! Look at the criminal on the cross: did he have a chance to be baptized by water? No, he did not. So was he saved? Yes, he was! (Luke 23:39-43). I believe that I made it explicitly clear in my last note, but I will simply have to try again. Both of these baptisms- Baptism by the Holy Spirit and baptism by fire, are both encompassed together as one baptism, one washing, that takes place at the moment of salvation. Yes, they are all equally effective before the Lord, but they act upon the believer as one baptism, one washing (Eph. 4:5), which occurs at the moment of salvation. You asked, "Is the baptism of fire constant?" The process of sanctification begins after the moment of salvation, and there is no need for us to be constantly re-baptized by fire.. No, the baptism by fire is not "constant", but our hearts are forever changed! Yes, water baptism is not something that is essential. Charis, water baptism is not essential for salvation. I don't know how much clearer I can be than that. Yes, I believe that the baptism by the Holy Spirit is synonymous with salvation, since we can only be baptized by the Holy Spirit if we come to salvation in our Lord, and we cannot attain salvation unless we also undergo baptism by the Holy Spirit (John 3). I have come to the conclusion a long time ago that we undergo one washing, one baptism at the moment of salvation. Water baptism is important, but it is not a prerequisite for salvation. And until you can prove me wrong by using Scripture, then I will hold to that belief. Nolan |
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6 | 3 baptisms or 1, or... | Col 2:12 | kalos | 23125 | ||
Clarification . . . . . . . . . Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire. (KJV) "*with...fire*. Because fire is used throughout this context as a means of judgment (Mt 3:10, 12), this must speak of a baptism of judgment upon the unrepentant" (page 1397, The MacArthur Study Bible, Word Publishing, 1997). "*and fire*. Probably a reference to the judgments associated with the return of Christ (v. 12; Mal. 3:1-5; 4:1-3)" (page 1448, Ryrie Study Bible, Moody Press, 1976, 1978). "*with the Holy Spirit and fire* . . . Here 'fire' may refer to judgment to come (see v. 12)" (page 1370, Zondervan NASB Study Bible, Zondervan, 1999). Grace to all, kalos |
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