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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Who constitutes the church? | Eph 4:3 | Morant61 | 206072 | ||
Greetings Doc! I would strongly disagree with your characterization that the Church of the Nazarene is semi-pelegian in doctrine. Wikipedia says of the use of this term against Arminians: "In more recent times, the word has been used in the Reformed Protestant camp to designate anyone who deviates from the Augustinian or Calvinist doctrines of sin and grace, most notably Arminians. Many Arminians disagree with this generalization and believe it is libelous to Jacobus Arminius, John Wesley, and the many other Arminians who maintain original sin and the total depravity of the human race." Please, let's not use strawmen arguments. Nazarenes affirm total depravity. Here is the relevant quote from our statement of faith: "We believe that sin came into the world through the disobedience of our first parents, and death by sin. We believe that sin is of two kinds: original sin or depravity, and actual or personal sin. 5.1. We believe that original sin, or depravity, is that corruption of the nature of all the offspring of Adam by reason of which everyone is very far gone from original righteousness or the pure state of our first parents at the time of their creation, is averse to God, is without spiritual life, and inclined to evil, and that continually." Further, "We believe that the human race’s creation in Godlikeness included ability to choose between right and wrong, and that thus human beings were made morally responsible; that through the fall of Adam they became depraved so that they cannot now turn and prepare themselves by their own natural strength and works to faith and calling upon God." There is nothing pelegian at all in these statements. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Who constitutes the church? | Eph 4:3 | DocTrinsograce | 206084 | ||
Dear Tim, Yes, thank you for the reminder about strawmen arguments. And in that vein, I did not characterize the Church of the Nazarene as semi-pelagian. I chose my words very carefully. What I said was that they had their roots in the Holiness, Wesleyan tradition. Wikipedia asserts, "The Church of the Nazarene, often referred to as the Nazarene Church is an international evangelical Christian denomination that began in the Wesleyan tradition of the 19th century Holiness movement." The www.nazarene.org website says, "The Church of the Nazarene is a Protestant Christian church in the Wesleyan-Holiness tradition..." Now, I'm not much persuaded by the scholarly authority of Wikipedia, but doesn't the latter source confirm my statement pretty well? In Him, Doc |
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3 | Who constitutes the church? | Eph 4:3 | Morant61 | 206091 | ||
Greetings Doc! I apologize if I misunderstood you my friend. I thought that when you wrote: "The Church of the Nazarene, has its roots in the Holiness movement, which had roots in the Wesleyan tradition, which had roots in Arminianism, which had roots in Semi-Pelegianism." that you were saying that the Church of the Nazarene was semi-pelegian. :-) As far as Wikipedia is concerned, that may be the first time I have ever quoted it. :-) But, I have heard other Calvinists attempt to make a connection between Arminianism and the heresy of semi-pelegianism. Since the Church of the Nazarene is Arminian in theology, I am glad to hear that you were not making that connection. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Who constitutes the church? | Eph 4:3 | hopalong | 206095 | ||
Hi Tim, Although the church generally agreed that Pelagius' teachings were not correct, Augustine's teachings were not universally accepted either. Whereas Pelagius was condemned for being too positive in his views concerning human nature, Augustine was said by some to be too negative. Vitalis of Carthage and a community of monks at Hadrumetum, Africa (about 427 A.D.), contested some of Augustine's principles, asserting that they destroyed freedom of the will and all moral responsibility. The issue became heated in the fifth century when some monks in southern Gaul, led by John Cassian, joined in the controversy. These men objected to a number of points in the Augustinian doctrine of sin and grace, namely, the assertion of the total bondage of the will, of the priority and irresistibility of grace, and of rigid predestination. Hence a compromise was sought, leading to what later became known as "Semi-Pelagianism." On three primary points of issue, Semi-Pelagianism settled for the following positions: Human nature is neither good nor bad, but injured. Just as an injured person can't quite do whatever he'd like to do, so likewise because of original sin, man's moral abilities became restricted. His free will remained, but was weakened by the Fall. Man, then, can still decide to seek and receive help. Man's need for grace: Although Semi-Pelagianism believes in man's need for God's grace (for man is too weak to help himself), man by his own free will is able to decide whether he wants God's grace. Whereas Pelagius taught that salvation is totally man's own doing, and Augustine taught that salvation is totally from God, Semi-Pelagianism teaches that salvation is a combination of the efforts of both man and God. According to Semi-Pelagianism, salvation is accomplished when man decides to co-operate with God and accepts the grace God offers him. This is often viewed as a synergistic concept of salvation. God's sovereignty: Semi-Pelagianism essentially maintains that the sovereignty of God is limited by man's decision to co-operate with God or not. God's gospel of salvation in Christ can be rejected by man and so return to God empty. Though God may wish to save someone, He can only do so if that person chooses to accept it and cooperate with grace. Over the course of time, Semi-Pelagian doctrine (although couched in terms of grace) became the dominant theological perspective of the Roman Catholic Church, and essentially remains so today. (theopedia) I hope that the above will be helpful in our definations. Hoppy |
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