Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How do you share Jesus with others? | Eph 4:12 | jeremiah1five | 241566 | ||
Hello Doc. Now it's my turn. I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you please be a bit more specific? |
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2 | How do you share Jesus with others? | Eph 4:12 | DocTrinsograce | 241570 | ||
Hi, Jer... Sure. Two simple questions. The first is just a syllogism verifying your root premise: (1) You have stated that the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20) was a command given none but the apostles (post #241552 , #241559, and #241562). Christ commanded the apostles to teach the newly made disciples (v19) "to observe all that I commanded you [the apostles]" (v20). If your premise is true, then you must contend that Christ meant "all commands" with the except for this final commission. Do I understand this to be your conclusion? The second is a request to identify the source of the teaching you espouse: (2) Which congregation or Bible scholar or teacher is the source of the perspective that you have expressed in the posts previously mentioned? In Him, Doc |
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3 | How do you share Jesus with others? | Eph 4:12 | jeremiah1five | 241574 | ||
Good Morning, Doc. And thank you for clarifying. Let me see if I understand what you are asking me: PART ONE (1) The "Great Commission" as it is called today was specifically given (as the original command is revealed and described in Matthew 28:19 and Acts 1:8) to the eleven disciples ONLY. This is how we are to first understand and interpret this command as the grammar makes distinction in "Go ye" (YOU eleven Go.) Yet in the same breath the Scriptures are given us from God for our training and admonition as well and that if God ever speaks to us He speaks to us through His Word. Having said that let me use Paul's experience in his call. On the Road to Damascus: Acts 9:15-16 (KJV) 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. Here, God reveals in general to Ananias the call and command of Paul. Later, when Paul testifies before the crowd he gives more information about his specific call and command: Acts 22:21 (KJV) 21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles. This, I receive as an internal witness, that is, God spoke directly and specifically to Paul when he was born-again on the road to Damascus and immediately thereafter. But there was also an external witness concerning Paul: |
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4 | How do you share Jesus with others? | Eph 4:12 | jeremiah1five | 241575 | ||
PART TWO Acts 13:2 (KJV) 2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. My question when looking at this Scripture is: "What call?" For partial understanding given the amount of information contained in these passages of Scripture we can conclude the LORD said something more specific than what is revealed in general to Ananias (Acts 9:15-16), and Paul's testimony to the crowd (Acts 22:21). Anything the LORD may have said to Paul would have to be verified so that those who were part of the external witness may know that God actually spoke to Paul and was speaking to them in Acts 13:2. I believe the only verifiable way to test this "spirit" manifested through prophecy (Acts 13:1-2) was through the Old Testament Scripture. Acts 13:3 shows there was more time that passed as they fasted and prayed some more. If these things are true, then the command Christ gave to the eleven in Matthew 28:19 and Acts 1:8 was a command given specifically to the eleven, and that today (or after the events in Matthew and Acts) when one is called by God and Christ, God will speak in accordance to the written and revealed Word of God. I am not saying that only the eleven were ever given the Matthew 28:19 command to service, I am saying that this call was not given to everyone in the Body of Christ as it is being taught today, thus making everyone an apostle. But if the Holy Spirit were to ever speak to one of His own today (as is described in Scripture), there will be an internal witness (God speaking directly to His servant and through His Word), and as described in Acts 13:2 an external witness through prophecy that will speak to the church fellowship IF the gift of prophecy in the fellowship is given free rein and is exercised and part of Biblical practice. If one of God's servants were to be called today the Holy Spirit can and may well have used the Scripture in Matthew 29:19 (or Acts 1:8), to get His message across to His servant and to reveal such a persons call to the church as well. There may well be some in the past and some today who may have a similar calling as the eleven, or as Paul, or as Epaphroditus (Phil. 2:25), etc. To test the validity of such consequence when it does happen the Scripture is the basis and the source to which we go in order to verify what God may have said to a person and to a church fellowship. The Holy Spirit (I believe) will not speak anything that is not revealed in Scripture (Jn. 16:13-14). If and when He does speak to His people it will be found to be what is already revealed in Scripture. How will a believer know the voice? Because the words will be the Word of God. Recognize the Word and you recognize the voice. And of course, the Presence of the Holy Spirit will be there glorifying Christ (the Word). If Christ is King, then I believe in the Kingdom Principle. We all have gifts and pounds and talents and calling that is not the same for everyone. Just as there are many parts in the body so there are many members. The Kingdom Principle is that which says that the royal baker does not mosey on into the royal motor-pool, remove the keys to the royal coach and proceed to take the royal coach for a spin. If Christ is King (and He is), then He is the one to appoint in His kingdom who does what and who serves in which way, we do not mimic the gift(s) and calling of another in the body of Christ. We wait to be discipled and when God is ready He will reveal your place in the body of Christ and what gifts and talents He has given you to accomplish that service to Him. We do not interpret Scripture and take a specific command the King gave to one of His servant and make it our own (unless somewhere in our walk the King has spoken specifically to "you." And when one has been given a mission by the King it's best to get out of the way :) (2) This/these are my own understanding and conclusions. |
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5 | How do you share Jesus with others? | Eph 4:12 | EdB | 241582 | ||
If we go back to Matthew 28:18-20 we see Jesus command to the Apostles to go make disciples. If the command was not meant to carry forward then we have to conclude that we are not to make disciples. Therefore in you example above the Royal Baker is not commanded to teach others to bake. The royal motor pool mechanic is not to teach others to be mechanics. If God wants bakers or mechanics he will provide them. Is this what you are saying? |
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6 | How do you share Jesus with others? | Eph 4:12 | jeremiah1five | 241583 | ||
Here is the Scripture Matthew 28:19-20 (KJV) 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. This command was given to the eleven. They were given specific instruction what to do, an d later the Holy Spirit would bring "other things" to their remembrance of what Jesus said and done that was relevant to their on-going walk with Him. As I said, and as you can read, the command is for the eleven disciples to fulfill. It is not meant for everyone in the body of Christ as the church teaches new believers when they become saved and begin attending fellowship in a good church. However, the Scripture is for [our] training and admonition, as well as for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness (and that righteousness we are trained and instructed in means we interpret the Scriptures correctly and not take specifics from the Word as is found in Matthew 28:19-20 and wrongly interpret them as the church does today (and in the past). However, being that we have the Scripture for our training and admonition and that God speaks to us through His Word by the Holy Spirit if God ever chose to call someone and gift them it will be through His Word, and a person can have the same call and instruction as the eleven, or the can have just the call and another instruction. It depends on the will of God for that person. It is in this that it "goes forward." We are not all apostles with the same call and instruction as the eleven disciples. But that is what the church teaches in general, to go out and evangelize, preach, etc. and they err in this also because they half step. Part of the instruction is to go to Jerusalem, Judaea, Samaria, and the uttermost parts of the [then known world - east - the Orient.] But the church doesn't obey this part of Jesus' instruction to the eleven, do they? (Acts 1:8). So, to interpret this in Matthew and say everyone is supposed to do what the eleven were specifically commanded by Christ to do is error in and of itself, and it is error because they pick and choose what part they want to obey (omitting the go to Jerusalem, Judaea, Samaria part, etc.), and this is wrong too. As you can see from the text Jesus is commanding the eleven to do those things, not everyone in the body of Christ. Are you following me? One can be called to be the royal baker and given specific instruction of whether or not to teach another, it depends on what God and His Christ reveal to the person in the body of Christ. He is the Head and He determines who does what and with what gifts and instruction. We are all parts on the body of Christ. We are not the whole. Our call will be in part, our instruction will be in part, our gifts will be in part, etc. I know of an older brother, a senior, who's only instruction is to speak as led "to the Jew first and also to the Gentiles." I don't know his calling, but I am aware and know what he is to say when in his gift. As long as he is obedient (and I believe he is), then God will use him as the Lord leads. But to go and do and say what God and His Christ gave specifically to another in the body of Christ is to short-circuit your own call and instruction because while one thinks they are supposed to do what Christ gave specifically to the eleven to do and mimic their call and instruction is to be disobedient and Christ cannot use a horse that has no bridle or bit in his mouth. You understand uncontrolled, yes? Mavericks. So, who is really leading and guiding this Christian??? That is what I am saying. We are to be taught by those called to teach. We are to be shepherded by those called to shepherd, we are called to wait on the Lord, to read and study His Word, and when the Lord is good and ready He will reveal to the person (all persons individually) their call, their gifts, their instruction, etc., that they may serve Him obediently and fulfill their part in the body. |
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