Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Oneness theology wrong again | 2 Cor 13:14 | kalos | 113095 | ||
'Jesus' resurrection and ascension ' One of the problems with oneness theology is in dealing with the resurrection of Jesus. Oneness Pentecostal theology states that Jesus had two natures while he was walking the earth. That is, he was both God and man. This is correct theology in so far as it states that within the one person of the Son, there are two natures: God and man. But it also states that God is now in the "form" of the Holy Spirit. What happened to Jesus' body after the ascension? Where is it? Is it alive? Is it in a coma? Was it dissolved? Does it still exist? Is Jesus still a person? If so, how can Jesus, the person with flesh and bones, also be the Holy Spirit? ' In Trinitarian theology the second person of the Trinity became flesh (John 1:1, 14). In other words, according to Phil. 2:5-8, Jesus added to himself human nature. Likewise in Col. 2:9 it states, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." 1 Tim. 2:5 says that "there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." We know that Jesus rose from the dead in the same body He died in since He prophesied He would raise His body (John 2:19-21); He retained the scars of His ordeal after the resurrection (John 20:27); and He was seen as a man after the resurrection (Luke 24:39). '"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39). "Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing" (John 20:27). ' As you can see from the above verses, Jesus retained His physical nature after His resurrection -- along with His scars. This is why it says in Col. 2:9 that in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Notice that the verb "dwells" is in the present tense. That is, right now Jesus has a body of flesh and bones. He is physical. He is in heaven. He is a man, the Godman. ' Nevertheless, some deny Jesus' resurrection by stating that the Bible says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and therefore Jesus did not rise in the same body he died in. But, we need to realize that the Bible says, "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 15:50), not flesh and bones as Jesus said He had (Luke 24:39). Is this important? Yes it is. Jesus’ blood was the sacrifice that cleanses us from sin (Lev. 17:11; Heb. 9:22). I suspect that Jesus' resurrected body did not have any blood in it. It was shed from His body on the cross. 'Jesus' Ascension and Return ' The Bible tells us that Jesus ascended into the sky (Acts 1:9-11). When He did this He was still in physical form as I've demonstrated above. In addition, the Bible tells us that Jesus will return in the same manner. '"And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:9-11). ' Since the Bible teaches us that Jesus is in bodily form now (Col. 2:9), then how does the Oneness Pentecostal person maintain that God is in the form of the Holy Spirit? Also, when Jesus returns, will He return in His body? Will God's form then revert to the form of the Son at His return according to Oneness? ' I do not think Oneness Pentecostal theology is correct for many reasons. But here, with this issue of Jesus' resurrection and ascension, I see their theology denying the incarnation of God in flesh right now. After all, it says in Col. 2:9 that Jesus is in bodily form now. Oneness denies that since God, according to its theology, is now supposed to be in the form of the Holy Spirit.' ____________________ www.carm.org 2cor1314 |
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2 | Will they ever get it right? | 2 Cor 13:14 | kalos | 113098 | ||
Will they ever get it right? 'Jesus' resurrection and ascension ' One of the problems with oneness theology is in dealing with the resurrection of Jesus. Oneness Pentecostal theology states that Jesus had two natures while he was walking the earth. That is, he was both God and man. This is correct theology in so far as it states that within the one person of the Son, there are two natures: God and man. But it also states that God is now in the "form" of the Holy Spirit. What happened to Jesus' body after the ascension? Where is it? Is it alive? Is it in a coma? Was it dissolved? Does it still exist? Is Jesus still a person? If so, how can Jesus, the person with flesh and bones, also be the Holy Spirit? ' In Trinitarian theology the second person of the Trinity became flesh (John 1:1, 14). In other words, according to Phil. 2:5-8, Jesus added to himself human nature. Likewise in Col. 2:9 it states, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." 1 Tim. 2:5 says that "there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." We know that Jesus rose from the dead in the same body He died in since He prophesied He would raise His body (John 2:19-21); He retained the scars of His ordeal after the resurrection (John 20:27); and He was seen as a man after the resurrection (Luke 24:39). '"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39). '"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing" (John 20:27). ' As you can see from the above verses, Jesus retained His physical nature after His resurrection -- along with His scars. This is why it says in Col. 2:9 that in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Notice that the verb "dwells" is in the present tense. That is, right now Jesus has a body of flesh and bones. He is physical. He is in heaven. He is a man, the Godman. ' Nevertheless, some deny Jesus' resurrection by stating that the Bible says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and therefore Jesus did not rise in the same body he died in. But, we need to realize that the Bible says, "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 15:50), not flesh and bones as Jesus said He had (Luke 24:39). Is this important? Yes it is. Jesus’ blood was the sacrifice that cleanses us from sin (Lev. 17:11; Heb. 9:22). I suspect that Jesus' resurrected body did not have any blood in it. It was shed from His body on the cross. 'Jesus' Ascension and Return ' The Bible tells us that Jesus ascended into the sky (Acts 1:9-11). When He did this He was still in physical form as I've demonstrated above. In addition, the Bible tells us that Jesus will return in the same manner. '"And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:9-11). ' Since the Bible teaches us that Jesus is in bodily form now (Col. 2:9), then how does the Oneness Pentecostal person maintain that God is in the form of the Holy Spirit? Also, when Jesus returns, will He return in His body? Will God's form then revert to the form of the Son at His return according to Oneness? ' I do not think Oneness Pentecostal theology is correct for many reasons. But here, with this issue of Jesus' resurrection and ascension, I see their theology denying the incarnation of God in flesh right now. After all, it says in Col. 2:9 that Jesus is in bodily form now. Oneness denies that since God, according to its theology, is now supposed to be in the form of the Holy Spirit.' ____________________ www.carm.org 2cor1314 |
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3 | Will they ever get it right? | 2 Cor 13:14 | Renovate Me | 113130 | ||
Kalos, I agree with you that Jesus retained His Physical body after resurrection, but I do not think that He retained His body of flesh after His ascension. To be raised from the dead would mean to live again, and I doubt that one could talk, as well as eat with the Apostles and be a living body of flesh without blood to deliver oxygen to the tissue. I also have debated with other Cristians about the existance of flesh in heaven. My feeling is that The body of Christ in heaven is His resurrected body, which will be comparable to our own resurrected spiritual bodies when we shall rise to meet our Lord in His day. We will surely be changed from what we are now, and greatly improved. We are now spirits residing in corruptible bodies, made from the dust of the earth. When Jesus Christ ascended towards heaven, my belief is that He was already in possession of His incorruptible, glorious, spiritual body, newly adapted to the heavenly environment, where He is to eternally dwell. May I illustrate this by a comparison of the bodies of the first and second Adam. First, there is an animal body, and second, there is a spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44). We now exist in our natural body, the animal body which was inherited from the first Adam. Our spiritual body shall come from the second Adam. As the first Adam was made a living soul, such as ourselves, The second Adam was made a Spirit. He is the resurrection and the life (John 11:25). Our first body is of the earth, made out of the earth, and resides on the earth, being adapted to this environment. But the second Adam is the Lord from heaven; He who came down from heaven, and gives life to the world (John 6:33). He is the Lord of heaven and of the earth. If the first Adam left us the legacy of natural bodies, cannot the second Adam make our bodies spiritual ones? If the prince of this world can do one, can the Lord from heaven, do the other? Now, if we belong to Christ, as true believers in him, we shall have then our spiritual bodies as sure as we now have natural bodies. The dead in Christ shall not only rise, but shall rise in their newly inherited and transformed bodies. The reason for this change is: “that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor doth corruption inherit incorruption. Our body now consists of flesh and blood, and it is corruptible in nature, liable to rot as it returns to the earth that provided its substance. But no such thing shall be allowed to dwell in heaven, because this would be corruption inheriting incorruption, which is impossible, at least in earthly terms. How can an eternal inheritance be possessed by flesh and blood, that will waste away? It must be changed into an eternal, spiritual body, before it can possess its own inheritance. |
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