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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Baptized before serving in choir | 1 Cor 12:13 | DocTrinsograce | 183539 | ||
Dear Justme, In order to bring others properly into the discussion, let me offer some definition. The branch of study in theology that deals with the church is called ecclesiology. It deals with the doctrines of the origin, identity, discipline, polity, leadership, purpose, mission, and destiny of the church. The discussion of the distinction between the visible and the invisible church is a concept that deals with the question of the identity of the church. The idea of this dichotomy was first articulated by arguably the greatest theologian of Christendom, Augustine of Hippo in the early fifth century. John Calvin fleshed out the idea even further in the middle of the sixteenth century. Here's the basics: The visible church are the people that gather in Christ's name. These are the physical gatherings and accouterments of the corporate bodies. The invisible church, however, is made up of the elect -- past, present, and future. It is the perfect, holy, body of Christ. (God alone, who searches human hearts, knows who makes up the invisible church.) This distinction becomes clear in the various passages of Scripture that speak of the church. Justme, the problem of your assertions is not rooted in your belief in this doctrine. I do not doubt that you believe in this doctrine. However, you made these statements: "...I have seen souls being transformed by Jesus Christ..." "... The number of believers is growing every day..." "There are lots of 'tares' and they seem to be growing faster then ever before as well..." etc. Do you see the problem? The words "seen," "number," and "seem" don't have anything to do with the invisible church. The invisible church cannot be seen, numbered, or characterized by direct observation. You can only do those things with something that is visible. Consequently, I could only assume that your favorable characterizations were concerned the visible church. Such sentiments to which I could but strenuously disagree. Syncretism, pluralism, Socianism, relativism, subjectivism, humanism, autosoterism, etc. are more rampant in pulpits today than ever before. In Him, Doc |
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2 | Baptized before serving in choir | 1 Cor 12:13 | justme | 183567 | ||
Doc: I totally agree with what you have said. I am glad you took time to respond to me. Often we jump into a dialogue and without someone (such as yourself) who has the background and learning to untwist what has been said. I look at the "Church" as a complete "Body of Christ" with those who have gone to be with Christ, those who are in Christ at this present moment, and those who are yet to come to Christ. For me I understand to three divisons as a total unit called the Church, or the Bride of Christ, and often said to be the Body of Believers, and Paul even describes the many parts of the body of Christ compared to the human body. I can see how the words "seen", "number", and "seem" can be confusing. This is especially true with your better wording. As for those who are the visable church, there is a drastic falling away from Scriptual teachings, the outlook is bleak as I see it. However, at the same time there are places some of which are in South America that the Good News of Jesus Christ is being received with open hearts. I have heard by some serving in Russia thatthere are places that small numbers are coming to Christ. Even though I do not see them personally come to Christ, they are part of the visable church. Perhaps, if the return of Christ is many days away, or even centuries away, there are those who will come to Christ. Every person to come to Christ adds to the number, and growth of the Church. What I am attempting to say is, I see the Church in it's complete state, just as it is toady. As the Holy Father sees and knows the begining and end of the world, is how I describe the total Church. In presenting this I can see that it may be hard to follow, and I do appologize if this seems I was referring to only the visable church. I sincerely had or have no intentions of causing a controversy that would divide us into sides and cause hostility amoung the forum. That would be totally against everything I understand and practice as a Christian. Again thank you for your note. Blessings Doc. justme |
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3 | Baptized before serving in choir | 1 Cor 12:13 | DocTrinsograce | 183577 | ||
I believe it was J. I. Packer who said something to the effect that if Charles H. Spurgeon were alive today, he wouldn't call it a "Downgrade Controversy," but a "Nose-dive!" | ||||||