Results 1 - 2 of 2
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Fair multitude die without gospel? | Rom 1:20 | MJH | 165501 | ||
Kalos, I have read the web site you quoted. I many times "preached" those very points from those very scriptures. I've been in the faith for nearly 30 years and was brought up in the faith as a child. I understand all of the things that that web site has to say, only now I do not accept them any longer as stated. My understanding of Hell has changed some in the past few years. Actually it has been something that I struggled with even while teaching the very things on the site you have given. I do not believe that a Holy and Just God would find it Just to condemn for eternity those who sought to serve and Love Him, but got it wrong. My old neighbor is a good anecdotal example. She lived through the Holocaust and concentration camps. She was a Jewish believer who loved the one True God and served Him, prayed to Him, knew His Word and followed it as best she knew how. She did know about Jesus, but in her words, "He hasn't spoke to her yet." As He apparently did for her daughter. My original belief was that God would do to her what even Hitler couldn't dream up as a punishment. And not only that, God would do it to her for ever and ever and ever in conscious torment. All this for trying to serve and love the One True God. I do not find any scriptures that uphold that view. One might argue whether or not she will be "with the Lord" but to be in eternal conscious torment...no, I do not believe that based on my understanding of all of scripture. MJH |
||||||
2 | Fair multitude die without gospel? | Rom 1:20 | mark d seyler | 165504 | ||
Hi MJH, It's a hard thing to think about, of anyone we know and care about, who seems to us to have led a "good" life, even seeming to honor the Lord, but without pledging themself to Jesus, that they would burn forever in the lake of fire. I would like to share a few thoughts with you on this, if I may. The Bible does teach that the alternative for those who are not God's is in fact eternal, and is torment. Revelation 20 teaches us that, as well as other places. Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. The same Greek is used of everlasting punishment as everlasting life. And we are not talking about "the result of the punishment", i.e. anihilation. To say that would be to add words that are not found in the text. The punishment is Greek kolasin, from the verb kolaso, to cut back. Its not a good thing, but it is not synonymous to destruction or death. In 1 John 4:18 it is translated "torment": "fear hath torment". If you read post 157307, this will more fully show how we can know from scripture that the punishment of the lost is eternal. I suspect, from your background as you have shared, that you already know these scriptures. There is the indication in Scripture that not everyone's punishment will be equally severe: Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. The one who offends a child would be better off just being dead, and starting their punishment forthwith, than to continue to offend a child. The only reason this could be so is that they are increasing the severity of their punishment. But even with these things in mind, we have to simply ignore the plain teaching of the Bible to say that the lost will not be in eternal torment to some degree, and to try to show otherwise will force you to say that some certain text "really doesn't mean what it says." On the other side of the coin, there is a person like you have described. You have said that she has served God, and prayed to Him, and followed His Word "as best she know how". I cannot judge what she may or may not have gotten settled with God before she died. But of the person who has "served God", "knew His Word", but has not come to Jesus, are they one of whom it can be said that she sought, but did not find? Luk 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. Is it not true that everyone who is actually seeking God will find Him? Did she follow the Word of the Old Testament, but not listen to the Prophet Whom Moses said would come? Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; If she kept the Old Covenant, how could she sacrifice without a priesthood and temple? Did she simply select those portions of the Word that were convenient to her to keep, so that she could feel like she was ok? I hear in your words that you cared much for this woman, and I dearly hope that the Lord reached her before she died. It is a tough thing to try to deal with, thinking that someone who seems so good and nice, and even loves the Lord, may be suffering forever. But consider: We all know people who live pretty good lives, who help those in need, and who even are involved in church. But they have not given themselves to God, they have selected those parts of the Bible to keep that are convenient to them, or even if inconvenient, what they have done is to make up their own rules of what is required to "get into heaven". Some people's rules more closely resemble the true way than other's, but as they say, a miss is as good as a mile. My wife used the example of swimming to Hawaii. Some start off strong, some start weak. Some don't even make it past the breakers. Some will start off heading towards the Aleutians, and some will start off heading straight towards Maui. But none will arrive on their own strength. The Bible only tells us of two final destinations. One is the Kingdom of our Lord, and the other is eternal torment without Him. And to be without Him is truly a tragidy. I pray God's peace for you. Love in Christ, Mark |
||||||