Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | New life? | Acts 2:38 | Reformer Joe | 50629 | ||
First of all, I want to commend you for discussing these issues with dignity and without all of the vitrium that often can accompany these types of controversies. I do think that Romans 6 is a great passage to examine how baptism is so closely linked to our faith. Many people profess faith in Christ and wait years to be baptized, and I stand with you in criticizing this practice as not following the Biblical model. However, like with the Lord's Supper (the other ordinance established by Jesus Christ), it is important to understand that the external is not only a seal as we see in Romans 6, but also a sign pointing to an inward reality. As I said before, baptism should not be confused with saving faith, but neither should it be separated from it. I do not say that baptism saves us (especially baptism alone, which could be construed from this passage out of context), but rather what saves us is the internal work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts, producing repentance and saving faith which in turn produces works in keeping with repentance. We see in both of these ordinances (baptism and the Lord's Supper) symbolic language. "Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?" --1 Corinthians 10:16 'And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."' --Luke 22:19-20 "Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord." --1 Corinthians 11:27 Unless one is a Catholic or a Lutheran, no one believes that the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ is present in any way, despite the apparent words of Jesus to the contrary. However, it is clear from passages above that there is a link between the two. Identification between bread and wine and the flesh of Jesus, without the two being confused. The same is true of baptism. There is an inseparable link between baptism and salvation, but the two must never be confused as being the same thing. Just as the elements of the Lord's Supper point to a reality distinct from it but not separate from it, so baptism points to an inward reality distinct but not separate from it. In other words, if you insist that baptism is literally "being buried with Christ" I would have to ask why the Lord's Supper is not literally "eating His flesh and drinking His blood" as described in John 6. Both are external signs and symbols sealing us visibly in the church yet pointing to a reality expressed elsewhere. So, to answer your question, our new life starts apart from baptism internally, and the promise is maked externally by baptism. --Joe! |
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2 | New life? | Acts 2:38 | Grace and Truth | 50636 | ||
Joe, I don't quite understand you point here! "So, to answer your question, our new life starts apart from baptism internally, and the promise is maked externally by baptism". Paul saids we are buried with Christ by baptism,into his death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life, Then he explans how this is done in the next six verses. | ||||||
3 | New life? | Acts 2:38 | Reformer Joe | 50670 | ||
Sorry I wasn't clearer. Simply put, baptism points to our justification by faith alone. It is a sign of a promise that God has made. You know Acts 2:38 very well; let's look at the next verses. '"For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!" So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.' --Acts 2:39-41 These next few verses answer some very important questions. 1. Baptism is for whom? A: as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself So those who are called by God are to be baptised. Those who have already been regenerated, because that is result of the internal call of God. It is pretty clear that in using a term such as "as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself," there is an implication that God may or may not call all to himself. Otherwise, Peter would have said "this promise is for everyone." Therefore, one can argue that regeneration precedes baptism, because only those who have been called by God are to be baptized. Another argument for baptism pointing to a regeneration distinct from it can be made by understanding that baptism is an act which is pleasing to God. You would agree with that, right? Looking at Romans, however, we see the following: "For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God." --Romans 8:6-8 So my question for you is, those people who submitted themselves for baptism, were they still "in the flesh" as they did so or not? If they were being led by the Spirit, that means that the Spirit of God was already indwelling them, showing them to be regenerate: "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him." --Romans 8:9 So looking at our two perspectives in light of this passage: 1. According to the Churches of Christ, being indwelled by the Spirit of God is the result of being baptised. The question is how someone still in the flesh (the unbaptized, according to you) would sumbit themselves to a God-pleasing and God-honoring act (baptism) if Romans 8 tells us twice that it is impossible for them to do so? 2. The other option is that the baptism of the new believers in Acts 2 were baptized as a result of them being led by the Spirit, which according to Romans 8:9 is a result of the Spirit's indwelling. That harmonizes with Romans 8, and also makes sense when we look at Acts 2. We see, prior to baptism, the people responding with a desire to be saved (a God-honoring sign of regeneration) and also receiving the word. Only those among the crowd who received the word (caused by God opening their hearts to it) came forth in obedience to the call to repentance. Because repentance and baptism are God-pleasing attitudes/acts, it is clear that they must have already been led by the Spirit of Christ and were enabled to please God -- hence God's call and regeneration had already occurred. --Joe! |
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