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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can God save us the way HE WANTS TOO? | Acts 2:38 | Reformer Joe | 50529 | ||
For someone that belongs to a church that insists that "one need look only to the Bible," you certainly are employing secondary sources a lot! Not that I have a problem with that; it just seems that if I were to quote Augustine or Luther or Calvin, you would immediately make the claim that "only the Bible counts." Anyhow, you wrote: "1. While it is true that the passages referenced (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 3:22-27) do not explicitly mention baptism, neither do they contain any allusion to repentance. Are we to assume that repentance is not required for redemption? Surely not." Repentance is a result of regeneration, just as saving faith is. Repentance always accompanies saving faith. One might call them two sides of the same coin, as repentance is turning away from reliance upon self, and faith is turning toward God, relying on Christ's completed work on the cross alone. Neither is an external action, but an exercise of the will, a change in disposition, that will result in external actions (works). Neither repentance nor faith should be classified as "works." We are not justified by repentance, nor baptism; we are justified by faith alone. Repentance accompanies faith and baptism follows (at least at the start of the church in Acts 2). However, other passages are expressly clear that it is faith, NOT works that saves. As your source put it, "No single statement or obscure passage of one book can be allowed to set aside a doctrine which is clearly established by many passages." Ephesians 2:8-10 is pretty clear. Nothing obscure about it. However, I prefer looking at Romans 4:1-5 as an even clearer picture. Paul is demonstrating how we are not saved by faith, not works, and he uses Abraham as his example to which we should compare our own salvation. Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Not "Abraham did this and than and then was declared righteous." We can be pretty certain that he was declared righteous without baptism. Yes, baptism was not established as a sacrament until the Great Commission, but we must keep in mind here that Paul is saying unequivocally in Romans 4 that our salvation is the same as Abraham's (and he cites David, another unbaptized believer, as well). I believed God, and it was credited to me as righteousness. That was shown forth in my baptism and my repentance, just as Abraham's belief was demonstrated in his obedience. But faith and obedient works, while always linked, must never be confused with one another. You quoted: '2. It is rarely the case that a single context will totally exhaust the biblical material on a particular theme. It is the ?sum? of the truth that counts (Psa. 119:160), not an isolated text, that may focus upon a limited point of emphasis.' But you still have to address the fact that passages like Ephesians directly state that we are saved by grace through faith, and that NOT of works. It is not that works are not mentioned; they are specifically EXCLUDED by the text. There is no reasonable way that we can add in any work and say that we are saved by it, because Paul headed that notion off at the pass completely and totally. It is God's grace through faith, nothing else, that is the source of our salvation. --Joe! |
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2 | Can God save us the way HE WANTS TOO? | Acts 2:38 | Grace and Truth | 50585 | ||
"I believed God, and it was credited to me as righteousness. That was shown forth in my baptism and my repentance, just as Abraham's belief was demonstrated in his obedience. But faith and obedient works, while always linked, must never be confused with one another". You bring up a good point here, when you said what God has done, (you the word "credited") and ("obedience") God will credit us before or after we obey him? This is exactly what Paul is teaching about faith! Faith itself is an active verb, it demands a responce, in Gen 12 when God told Abram to Go! Did he just sit there saying I believe you God, or did he pack-up and go? Remember active verb "repent and be baptized" faith with action is what God requires. Yes you can say "Faith alone" as long as you understand that faith is active and not stagnant Romans 4:20-25 Remember the throught here is base on the teaching in chapter 3 of Romans about what the law couldn't do Romans 3:28-31, also Paul spoke on this issue because it excluded the gentiles from Christ by the teachings of the jews. vs.29 |
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3 | Can God save us the way HE WANTS TOO? | Acts 2:38 | Reformer Joe | 50618 | ||
You wrote: 'You bring up a good point here, when you said what God has done, (you the word "credited") and ("obedience") God will credit us before or after we obey him? This is exactly what Paul is teaching about faith!' Is it? We are getting to the crux of the matter here, so let's examine this part carefully. First of all, I cannot take "credit" for the word I used since the Spirit used it first (Romans 4:1-5 and James 2:23; the OT rendering is often "reckoned" as in Genesis 15:6). The second, most important issue is this question you raised: "God will credit us before or after we obey him?" Looking at Genesis 15:1-6, we see God reckoning righteousness to Abraham before he even lifts a finger. Paul agrees when addressing the Romans: "How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them" --Romans 4:10-11 Before Abraham was circumcised (which doesn't occur until Genesis 17), he was credited with righteousness (Genesis 15:6). Abraham's offering of Isaac (alluded to in James 2) was AFTER righteousness had been credited to him. Therefore, the order we see with Abraham (and us) is belief, leading to justification before God, leading to compliance with God's commandments. The righteousness that gets us into heaven is not something we achieve (because we all fall short -- Romans 3:23-24): "For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the GIFT of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ." --Romans 5:17 The righteousness that gets us into heaven is Christ's righteousness applied to us, not our own: "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith" --Philippians 3:9 "For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God." --Romans 10:3 You wrote: "Yes you can say "Faith alone" as long as you understand that faith is active and not stagnant" The way I have heard it best put is that we are saved by faith alone, but not by a faith that IS alone. We become justified before God through faith and nothing else, but true faith is accompanied by repentance and leads to obedience. And all of these are gifts of God. --Joe! |
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4 | Can God save us the way HE WANTS TOO? | Acts 2:38 | Mommapbs | 50620 | ||
AMEN JOE! | ||||||