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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Greek use of koinos and akathartos | Acts 10:15 | MJH | 213665 | ||
I have a question about the Greek word used in Rom. 14:14. Hoping not to cause trouble here, I simply want to get further clarification from someone who knows Greek more than I. I've studied some the word koinos(G839) and akathartos(G169. koinos, from what I can tell, means common. Akathartos means ritually (Levitically) unclean. The LXX uses akathartos in Lev 11 and elsewhere, but uses koinos when describing things that are made common based on their use. To explain further: If I spoke of a Cray fish, I would use akathartos every time, because this is clearly unclean by Lev. 11 standards. There is no disputable issue with that. But if I were to speak of Lamb purchased at the market, I may uses koinos (common) because the Lamb is suspect; it could have been used in Idol worship. If it were known to be used in Idol worship, then it would certainly be koinos, or common. Therefore, if I speak of something that would otherwise be perfectly fine, but something renders it otherwise, it would be koinos. Am I right in that? A search of the words in the NT shows that in each case, koinos is used like I describe above. And akathartos is used as I describe above. Why then do nearly all translations use the word "unclean" in Rom. 14:14 rather than the word "common" as would be more literal? MJH |
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2 | Greek use of koinos and akathartos | Acts 10:15 | Morant61 | 213666 | ||
Greetings MJH! I haven't had time to do any extensive research on this excellent question, but I have noticed a couple of things. It certainly is true that the LXX only uses akathartos in Lev. 11. Koinos is only found a couple of times in Proverbs in the LXX. So, I am not sure there is enough evidence to decide if there is a clear cut difference in meaning between the two words. However, in the NT, the two words are used together quite often. Are they synonymous or not? The clearest indication that they may be synonymous appears to be Acts 10:15 where Peter is told not to call anything 'koinos' that God has 'katharizo'. I'll try to do some more checking on this question. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Greek use of koinos and akathartos | Acts 10:15 | MJH | 213671 | ||
Thanks Tim. I appreciate the reply. I would like to discuss it more. I do have other uses of the two terms outside of the Biblical Text dating to the first century. I have been a bit gun shy in that area recently, but if from a purely word study understanding it helps, maybe I’ll add them? You are right about Acts 10:15. The two terms are certainly connected. But I have also found that in reference to Gentiles, the term "common" or koinos was most often used (outside of Biblical Texts). Gentiles were defiled, while not "unclean" in and of themselves. They were, by Jews, rendered "common" because of how they lived, primarily their connection to Idolatry. Acts 10:14 also uses both words, but in this statement it would seem that there is a difference. "I have not eaten anything that is common (koinos) or unclean (akathartos)." Why use both words if they were synonyms? Since Jesus repeats only "common", he would be referring to Gentiles. At least in this context since Gentile inclusion was the whole point. I know I am writing as if I am definite, but in truth I am not but seeking to ask the next question. Thanks again for the reply and let me know what you find. MJH Can you list the Proverb passages that have Koinos? I can't do a search with the LXX I have and it doesn't have strong numbers either, so I am at a disadvantage there. |
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4 | Greek use of koinos and akathartos | Acts 10:15 | Morant61 | 213673 | ||
Greetings MJH! I have no problem using outside sources to help with word studies. My general approach though is that they are only illustrative, not definitive. The use of the words in Scripture itself is primary for me. Here are the references for 'koinos' in the LXX: Prov. 1:14, 21:9, and 25:24. There are about 22 uses of the word in the Apocrypha, but I don't have quick access to it to see how it is used there. I'll try to do some more research. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Greek use of koinos and akathartos | Acts 10:15 | MJH | 213721 | ||
Tim, Our approach then to outside sources is the same. I looked up Prov 1:14, 21:9 (good one) and 25:24. I can not figure out which Hebrew word the LXX is translating with koinos. It seems that "unclean" and "common" do not fit at all. Some of my sources did come from the Apocrypha and Pseudographia, but I am having difficulty locating them now. Thanks for the help. I've run across this and while parts make sense, I have learned that doing the looking myself helps me find out if others have made poor leaps of logic or misapplied ideas. I am however highly disabled in both Greek and time. If you do have time to look into it more, great, if not, I shall continue the search more and fill you in if ever I reach a conclusion. God bless you in your understanding of Greek. It is a real gift. MJH |
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6 | Greek use of koinos and akathartos | Acts 10:15 | KcabmI4 | 213722 | ||
MJH My thoughts could be miles off, but sometimes a different viewpoint helps to jog something for us. Maybe it is not the translation of any given word as much as it is the thought of the whole. Is this a possible way for the words to be used, or are they always used the same way? Could this be what the Hebrew word is doing? Proverbs 1:14 14- Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse: I believe the use of the word in this case could be in reference to the last part with (all having one purse.) Which would come out to having all things common. Proverbs 21:9 9- It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house. I'm kinda stretching on this one but it could be that the house is the object that is common to the husband and wife. Proverbs 25:24 24- It is better to dwell in the corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman and in a wide house. This is exactly the same as the other. But it seems as though they have used the word as a collective use or understanding. Conveying the thought of both occupying the same space. Just trying to give you some different possibilities, maybe they will let you look into an abstract direction if that will help. |
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