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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | believer or disciple | John 8:47 | DocTrinsograce | 137944 | ||
Hi, Dayoak... One of the problems with interpretation of scripture is that we, as readers, bring everything that we are to the reading; i.e., our experience, culture, history, etc. As Westerners we are all immersed in Greek thinking. Formal logic teaches us to see things in the form "If A then B ..." (this is called sentential logic). So when we see language that has a sentential structure to it, we assume that we quickly assume we are seeing a logical statement. Now, there is nothing inherently wrong with this kind of thinking. It has benefitted our civilization in many ways. Furthermore, in the scriptures, Paul and Luke use this kind of thinking very frequently. Formal logic is a valuable tool. However, the scriptures were written predominantly by orientals, not occidentals. Christ, Himself, often uses reasoning and language that has a more oriental feel to it. In this forum you will often read where I have distinguished between prescriptive statements and descriptive statements. We often mistake descriptive statements as prescriptive statements. What you have described as a "conditional statement" would be of the prescriptive kind. Jesus was not prescribing the method by which people became His disciples. Instead he was describing the nature of His disciples. Thus, He was saying (if you will allow my paraphrase), "The ones who are of God always hear and believe My words. That is why you do not hear or believe: because you are not of God." I am confident that the original language bears me out -- although I am not a Greek scholar. However, what I am able to understand of the original language from the tools that are available to me appears to support what I have said above. I hope that I have made things a bit clearer for you. In Him, Doc |
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2 | is there a change in audience? | John 8:47 | dayoak | 138037 | ||
I appreciate your insight into the language. Yet even you paraphrase; "The ones who are of God always hear and believe My words. That is why you do not hear or believe: because you are not of God." points out the problem I'm having in understanding, since vs 31 and prior, (especially vs 23 - 30) states Jesus is talking to the Jews who had believed (put their faith in him) after having heard him teach. I have to wonder, if the people being addressed in vs 32 are the believers, and in vs 33 he again is addressing the Pharisees wtih whom he had been reasoning earlier? That would make the rest of the passage make sense. |
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3 | is there a change in audience? | John 8:47 | DocTrinsograce | 138041 | ||
I'd say that such an assumption would not be entirely inappropriate. As John Gill says regarding verse 31, "There are two sorts of disciples of Christ; some are only nominal, and merely in profession such; and these sometimes draw back from him, discontinue in his word, and go out from among his people; which shows that they never were of them, nor are the true disciples of Jesus; for the genuine disciples of Christ continue in his Gospel, hold fast to him, the head, and remain with his people; which to do to the end, is an evidence, of their being disciples indeed." | ||||||