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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Where was Lazarus for 4 days? | John 11:11 | danieln | 57942 | ||
1) so if lego and sermeron are on close proximity only three times, then we can hardly make a generalisation of how they are used.\ 2) sorry i dont exactly understand this point 3) most major translators believe that we are concious after death, also as i said this text is easily swayed by ones preconcieved ideas 4) "I say today.." emphasises what he is about to say. similar maybe to "im telling you now!...". consider the situation the thief is in, he definately needed reassurance at that time. and now some points i would like to add: 1. Remember there are 65 clear texts where scripture refers to death as resting in sleep. How can we use one or two obscure references to build a doctrine. 2. Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." this may on the surface seem to be a indication that Jesus and the thief would go straight to heaven when they died. But notice this next text when Jesus had been resurrected from death on sunday he said to mary "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" (John 20:17) 3. There are a few other places in the Bible where the translators have obviously misplaced a comma, such is the case in Acts 19:12 in the KJV. compare it with the NIV version |
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2 | Where was Lazarus for 4 days? | John 11:11 | Morant61 | 58033 | ||
Greetings Danieln! I promised I would be back! :-) I don't have a lot of time, so I will just respond for now to your first point. I found this quote from Walter Martin?s book, ?Kingdom of the Cults?, pp. 447-448: ?We as Adventists believe that, in general, the Scriptures teach that the soul of man represents the whole man, and not a particular part independent of the other component parts of man?s nature; and further, that the soul cannot exist apart from the body, for man is a unit?. We, as Adventists, have reached the definite conclusion that man rests in the tomb until the resurrection morning. Then, at the first resurrection (Rev. 20;4, 5), the resurrection of the just (Acts 24:15), the righteous come forth immortalized at the call of Christ, the Lifegiver, and they then enter into life everlasting in their eternal home in the kingdom of glory.? (Martin?s source was ?Questions on Doctrine, pp. 515, 520). Allow me to use this as a starting point for this very complex subject. 1) Unity or Parts: I am actually in some agreement with you on this point. I happen to believe as well that man is a living soul, not that he necessarily has a soul. Though, I am open to the opposing view. However, I do believe that this unity is made up of parts. For instance, in Genesis, God breathed (Spirit) into man and he became a living soul. So, at the very least, it would seem that man has both a physical and a spiritual nature, which, while intended to be a unity, can exist separately. What is the evidence for this? I noticed that Cyclist mentioned many of these same passages, but I will repeat some of them here as well: a) 1 Sam. 28: We see Samuel?s spirit coming back after death to speak to Saul. His body is in the ground, but His spirit is aware and talking. b) Luke 16: The account of Lazarus and the rich man is never identified as a parable in the text. So, the implication is that it is a factual account. In this account, spirits are aware. c) Transfiguration: We see Moses and Elijah, both of whom are dead (and never said to be resurrected), present with Christ. d) Phil. 1:23 ? ?To depart and be with Christ? are grammatically connected and indicate that both occur at the same time. e) 2 Cor. 5:8: This verse says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This could not be if there was not a spiritual part to man?s nature. f) Many, many Scriptures which separate body, soul, spirit. This will do to start. So, in answer to your question, I would say that references to those who are ?asleep? are simply examples of phenomenological language. Dead people appear to be sleeping, so we refer to them in that way. Yet, Scripture is also clear that our spirits are aware and either present with Him (after His resurrection) or awaiting judgment in Sheol/Hades. I?ll stop here for now my friend while I await your response! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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