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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | universalism? | Luke 23:34 | azurelaw | 218952 | ||
Do you think Jesus' prayer in this verse is in support of universalism? Thanks for your input. Shalom Azure |
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2 | universalism? | Luke 23:34 | BradK | 218953 | ||
Hello Azure, In short, no I do not! I don't think the context supports this nor does the entire Bible endorse universalism. Robertson observes, "Father forgive them...Some of the oldest and best documents do not contain this verse, and yet, while it is not certain that it is a part of Luke’s Gospel, it is certain that Jesus spoke these words, for they are utterly unlike any one else. Jesus evidently is praying for the Roman soldiers, who were only obeying, but not for the Sanhedrin." The Bible Knowledge Commentary notes: "Luke’s purpose, instead, was to show that Jesus was the forgiving Messiah even as He died. Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who were killing Him (v. 34), and He forgave one of the men sentenced to die with Him (v. 43). Even in death Jesus had power to make people right with God." I hope this helps, BradK |
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3 | universalism? | Luke 23:34 | YenIsaRap | 218957 | ||
Dear Brad I'm sorry, but I have to say I totally disagree with your quote as far as who Jesus was praying for. "Jesus evidently is praying for the Roman soldiers, who were only obeying, but not for the Sanhedrin." This statement of Mr. Robertson's is rather limiting considering the work Jesus accomplished, in reading the prophesy of Isaiah 53:10-12 where Jesus v.10 becomes an offering for sin, v.11 by His knowledge He shall justify many, v.12 He was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. All three of these verses indicate Jesus was asking forgiveness for all mankind, for all time. For even we today do not know what we have done. In Him YenIsaRap |
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4 | universalism? | Luke 23:34 | BradK | 218961 | ||
Hello YenlsaRap, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter:-) However, I think the immediate context would support exactly what Robertson is saying! Of course, If I misunderstand the question, then I'm remiss. I take "universalism" to mean: Everyone is saved or eventually becomes saved! I agree that Jesus death, burial, and resurrection is sufficient to atone for all the sins of mankind. Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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5 | universalism? | Luke 23:34 | YenIsaRap | 218964 | ||
Dear Brad I agree with your assessment of Universalism :-), I do not feel there is scripture for that position. My question to you would then be, could you explain why Jesus was only praying for the soldiers, and not all of Israel? And us by extension. I am not seeing the context that you are saying is there. sorry Brother Yen |
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6 | universalism? | Luke 23:34 | Searcher56 | 218978 | ||
God's day to you, Yen, I believe the two they's in this verse are connected. The Roman soldiers did not know they were killing the Son of God. To them they were killing a criminal against Rome. Question. If you as a Roman soldier were a follower of Christ and was a the cross and your job was to nail Him to the cross ... would you do so? I think while you may even protest to your Lord, He would tell you ... "You must, else you will remain dead in your sins. Moreover, I am freely giving up My life, a sacrifice for your sins and those that believe." Searcher PS In verse 33, the only other possible "they" He could have been talking about were the two criminals. I think they knew what they did. |
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7 | universalism? | Luke 23:34 | YenIsaRap | 218994 | ||
Dear Searcher your statement "The Roman soldiers did not know they were killing the Son of God. To them they were killing a criminal against Rome." Your treatment of the word (killing) is very interesting, from the last I heard, in the 10 commandments it says "thou shall not kill", that means to me, even if I was a Roman soldier killing is wrong, something that God will hold me accountable for. (period) There was another post in this thread, where the person said she would not comment, she was alluding to the defense the German soldiers made after WW-II saying, "I was only following orders" did that defense make it ok to kill Jews? After all they were the enemies of the Third Reich. In fully understanding these verses, it wasn't what the Roman soldiers knew, or didn't know, it is what Jesus knew. If I was being put to death, as Steven was stoned, I could say the same thing, but not being Christ, I do not have the all encompassing understanding of just what His death would, did, and has meant for mankind. In conclusion I lay the two side by side, they are in essence the same prayer, except one is the prayer of the Son of God, with the full understanding of His mission on Earth, the other is a man, no different that we are, praying for the forgiveness of those killing him, as we were taught by the Son of God to do. Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep Be Blessed in Christ YenIsaRap. |
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8 | universalism? | Luke 23:34 | Searcher56 | 218995 | ||
YenIsaRap. Let me change to executing. The soldiers were killing/executing someone they were told to. They made no judgments ... that wasn't their place. The same is true for those who execute today. They are doing their job. As you know there were capital crimes in the OT. S | ||||||