Results 1 - 3 of 3
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Executive privilege? | Matt 18:17 | charis | 1144 | ||
Dear bjanko, thanks for your answer. I believe in the authority you described, but am not sure how vv. 18-20 "show clearly that there is an ecclesiastical authority; an authority the church leaders -- ministers and elders -- have that the laity does not have." Did your caps mean that the two or three witnesses are ministers? I very much agree that the congregation can be spared the 'gory details,' but how much can the leaders hold back? Men, even ministers, have a tendency to hold back that which implicates them. Understand that I am simply stating the caution needed to save the church from the abuse of 'executive privilege.' The reason I ask the sin is that apostate, or not of the Kingdom, is often equated as, "If you're not with us, you are against us. (and possibly in the enemy's grasp or even employ)" This is a pretty serious pronouncement, and cannot be made glibly. Also, with this kind of judgment, it doesn't seem that reconciliation and repentance are truly desired or hoped for. My point is that the church must be a place of great love and patience, and a sin leading to a situation of this magnitude must be truly heinous. Love in Christ Jesus. | ||||||
2 | Executive privilege? | Matt 18:17 | bjanko | 1147 | ||
I would not agree the sin must be particularly heinous; it simply must be repentant. The caps were in the NASB translation when I did a search for the verse. It was not my emphasis. They are in caps because they are words taken from the Mosaic Law in the O.T. and the NASB always caps those to indicate them. I don't know how many rules we can work out to come up with exact rules, which why we need leaders with wisdom living by God's rule. Ministers not ought hold back. If they do, then THEY should be disciplined by those over them. (Of course, many ministers have no one over them unless they are in a Reformed church.) vv. 18-20 are not verses merely about prayer, as is commonly misunderstood. Taken in context, they are referring to the prayers of two or three church authorities, binding and loosing, exercising authority over the church, with powers to admit into the church or to excommunicate. I believe the Scripture gives great authority to spiritual leaders and of course there's danger in that and men should be tested and examined very carefully before they are ordained. I'm not really sure what your main point or bottom line is, so I'm not really able to answer any more succinctly than this. I also agree that excommunication is not a glib or light thing or something that should be rushed into without first full and earnest pleading with the offender to repent. |
||||||
3 | Executive privilege? | Matt 18:17 | charis | 1149 | ||
Dear bjanko, You answered my main point, which was that the church should be aware and involved in church discipline, up to a point dictated by common sense. I agree that vv 18-20 are not just about prayer. Obviously they have something to do with the context. I am not sure I agree with your 'take' on them ('church authorities' speaks to me of a church hierarchy I am unfamiliar with), but neither do I 'violently' oppose it :-) I will look into it, and get back if I think it is worth discussion. As to examination prior to ordination, I think that post-ordination examination is also in order. I am sure you are aware of a lot of 'wonderful fellows' falling from their ministry. In some manner (not just finances or hierarchy) a minister should be accountable to his flock. It is for his protection. By heinous I meant something that would divide the church or weaken the already weak. Deception, violence, and infidelity also come to mind. That which causes the church or individuals to stumble? In effect, anything that isn't healed by your last statement. Thank you for a good discussion. I hope others were blessed as I was. In Christ Jesus. | ||||||