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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Yet Another Opinion on Baptism, Part 2 | Amos 1:1 | Rowdy | 131068 | ||
Excerpts from a book review, Part 2 From: Bobby Valentine Date: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:56 am Subject: Unveiling Glory: A Review Chapters 6 and 7 focus on the meaning of the atonment and resurrection. I thought again the authors did an admirable job with complex issues. They did not oversimplify but did try to communicate that Jesus death and resurrection are not just historical facts but have meaning for Christian living right now. Their call to "imitate" Jesus in his resurrection is a needed call to live the new life we begin in baptism with Christ. What the authors challenge us to avoid is reductionism. They correctly point out that we have often debated the essentiality of baptism but rarely the meaning of baptism. If what these authors write in chapter 3 is a "dismissing" of baptism I wish for more dismissing!! Hardly dismissing baptism these authors challenge us to look at our daily discipleship through the lens of baptism. We live baptismal lives. There actual words (though they say much more) are: "Baptism is not just a command to be obeyed, an essentail requirement to be checked off the list. Baptism is important because, in its essence, it connects the disciple to Jesus Christ. That is its basic meaning and key to its significance. Discussing baptism's essentiality reveals little, but looking into its essence can open our eyes to see the power of Jesus to cleanse and renew broken lives . . . " (pp. 58-59). The authors tell us three things begin as we "enter the waters with Jesus." First, we are reborn by water and Spirit by experiencing the washing of rebirth and renewal (p. 62). This certainly does not sound like a dismissing the essentiality of baptism . . . the authors just move us BEYOND that debate to say how does this moment continue to impact my life. Second, "in the water" we join Jesus . . . we become connected to him (p. 63). Third, "taken under the water, we . . . meet him in his death and resurrection" (p. 63). Following this the authors challenge a number of false dichotomies that are often constructed. They make some very good and insightful comments that salvation (and thus baptism) is both a divine and human moment. For example: "Baptism initiates us into the new humanity by connecting us with the Second Adam. It is not primarily an act of obedience that qualifies us for salvation. It is not like a lever we throw to receive the membership card that will gain us entry at the pearly gates. Nor is it a mere external human work, to be downplayed due to an emphasis on God's grace . . . the picture we get in the baptistry should match the one we get at the Jordon, where the fragmants of our humanity are being put back together under God, not broken further apart." (pp. 67-68). After a number of observations on real discipleship and truly dismissing the notion of "cheap grace" the authors spend considerable time on the implications of baptism for daily living. This is a needed thing in many churches. Here is one example: "Discipleship is not one-sided. It does not begin with us. Discipleship begins with the Lord. It is a response to the commitment God has already made to us, founded on a relationship and a covenant established in a muddy river in a tiny country where one who is both God and man humbled himself in the waters of baptism." (p. 77). We do the same. This book, while not flawless, should be welcomed by all who want to think through the implications of Jesus of Nazareth for living for God. I invite you to read this book for yourself. I pray you do. Shalom, Bobby Valentine Milwaukee, WI Ut omnes unum sint (John 17.21, Vulgate) End of review. I'd be interested in your opinions if you've read the book. God bless. Rowdy |
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2 | Yet Another Opinion on Baptism, Part 2 | Amos 1:1 | ROGER459 | 131069 | ||
(John 19:30) When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. This is call "The Finished Work of Christ!" One Complete Sacrifice for All Time. There nothing that can be added, as Christ paid the price requirement of God, i.e. (1Corinthians 5:7) Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: YES! Christ is our Passover. That one Sin sacrifice for all time. Actuall in the Greek, "it is finished" is a Legal Term. All the legal requirements of God, were filfulled when Christ Died, and rose again from the Dead! "According to the Scriptures!" That is how our belief is required, as Christ said in John 7:38. That is why the Word says, (Ephesians 1:12-14) That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ. (Eph 1:13) In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the Word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, (Eph 1:14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory. Salvation is the Holy Spirit, that seals a Believer, and keeps him till the Body is redeemed by the return of Christ. Water Baptism cannot add anything to the Finished Work of Christ. Without the Holy Spirit, one cannot be called a real believer, not matter what they 'think!' The Word is the final authority, over all doctrine. No church can dictate what we are to believe. No doctrine written by man can tell us what we are to believe. The Final Word says, (Luke 4:4) And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word of God. Thank you! |
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3 | Yet Another Opinion on Baptism, Part 2 | Amos 1:1 | Rowdy | 131098 | ||
Quoted from your post: Ephesians 1:12-14 That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ. Eph 1:13 In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the Word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory. Scripture supporting my response below: Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Heb 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Heb 9:16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. Heb 9:17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. Notice in particular Eph 1:14 and Heb 9:15-17. Don't you see our Lord died and left His Last Will and Testament in which He bequeathed to you, me and everyone in the whole world, past and future an eternal life with God in Heaven IF we meet His qualifications as a receipient. Yes, of course it's a Gift from God but we must accept it and just like in a court of law on Judgment Day, our God and ultimate Judge will be looking for those that have put on His Son's blood in accordance with His Words. How will our Lord and Father distinguish us from other sinners? God's children will have obeyed His and His Son's commands, and those whom He placed in charge when Jesus left this earth. Do continue studying. Remember we'll all be judged by ALL the words of the NT on Judgment Day. Thus we should represent a fully balanced Biblical view on these very important subjects, especially to those who don't know God's Word. Also we'll be held accountable for teaching error and promoting false doctrine. God bless. Rowdy |
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4 | Yet Another Opinion on Baptism, Part 2 | Amos 1:1 | ROGER459 | 131103 | ||
IT IS WRITTEN..Luke 4:4 (Ephesians 2:8-9-10) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Eph 2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.(Eph 2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Titus 3:5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (Galatians 3:2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Now, how can I add anything to the Finished Work of Christ. Upon Believing on Christ and His payment for 'my sins' , "HOW COULD I ADD ANYTHING TO THAT? Upon believing, "as the Scripture has said..John 7:38" I was given the Holy Spirit, which is God's assurance that I am His Child. IT IS HIS FINISHED WORK! (2Corinthians 4:7) But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. This Treasure, God's Holy Spirit, is His redemption of anyone who Believes on Christ! This is what God says in His Word, and "not what some church or denomination says!" He again says: (Ephesians 1:13-14) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,(Eph 1:14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory. Salvation came first, by the Holy Spirit, yet you tell me that Baptism is a part of that? The Word of God, tells me something different! Who am I to believe, "you or God?" Once again, Salvation is by Grace, through Faith! God in response send His Holy Spirit, to seal that Beliver, that the Power in us, may be of Him and not ourselves. You trust in His Finished Word, or you trust in your own works! You cannot have it both ways, for the Word says: (Romans 11:6) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. The "FINSHED WORK OF CHRIST" is complete! How can you add anything to salvation? How can you add works [baptism] to Grace, and say it is a part of Salvation? You CAN'T! I simply ask you, for a moment, to get a piece of paper. Draw a Large Cross on it, from the top to the Bottom. On the LH side, add in your doctrine of Baptism as 'what you understand to be a part of Salvation'. Oh the Rh side, take these scriptures, and then Compare them to the Finished Work of Christ! You will have to conclude, that God's Word holds all authority above any church or denomination, as Christ said, "IT IS WRITTEN..Matt 4:4" Then rethink you position. Ask God if what He said in His Word, is the Truth? [John 17:17] Thank you! |
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