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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The coming of the Lord at the rapture | Joel 2:31 | Radioman2 | 86294 | ||
The coming of the Lord at the rapture 'The Bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that the Second Coming of Christ and the rapture of the Church will occur after the opening of the sixth seal, sometime after the midpoint of Daniel's 70th Week (often erroneously called The Tribulation). If you believe that the rapture occurs at any other time than this, we invite you to see if your beliefs can stand in light of these five scriptures . . . 'In general, there are four events that will characterize the coming of the Lord at the rapture: '1. The return of Jesus Christ '2. The raising of the dead in Christ '3. The rapture of the Church, or the gathering together of the elect. '4. The cosmic signs in heaven that signal Christ's coming and, at the same time, usher in the Day of the Lord (which contains God's wrath). 'Look for the relationship of these four events in the verses below. ------------------------------ '1. Matthew 24:29-31 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." '2. 1 Thess. 4:16-17, 5:1-4 "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus, we shall always be with the Lord...But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night [for unbelievers]...But you, brethren are not in darkeness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief." '3. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." '4. Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord." '5. Revelation 6:12-13, 7-9,14 "I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind...After these things, I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb...These are the ones that come out of the Great Tribulation...'" ____________________ (www.strongtowerpublishing.com/fivescripturechallenge.htm) |
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2 | The coming of the Lord at the rapture | Joel 2:31 | Scribe | 86317 | ||
Part 1 of 2 Matthew 24:29-31 is a good verse to base a post tribulation rapture view. If it were the only scripture on the subject I would not think there would be any other view but post tribulation among the saints. However there are other verses, quite a few in fact. Listing them all and reading them in context there are going to be different conclusions among some of us. Paul said we see through a glass darkly but then (when the perfect day comes) we will see clearly. Until then we all have to walk by faith in the illumination of scripture we possess. I am not sure whether there is a pre tribulation rapture of the saints or a post tribulation rapture. So far I am leaning toward both. Here is one of the reasons I have considered a pre-tribulation rapture. Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Now it could mean "pray that you will be able to make it through all these things." but the general consensus among most scholars has been that it means escape completely as in not face them at all. But I am sure that will be debated until Jesus comes. It does not make sense that we should pray for death to escape them, no where in the scripture does FAITH pray for death, as a means of escape, only unbelief does that. Another reason is that in Rev 4 we have the 4 living creatures and the 24 elders all singing the same song, they sing Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; This makes it "clear" beyond controversy (at least in my mind) that the 4 creatures and 24 elders are simply a symbolic form or redeemed saints. They are not just Jews, because they are from every people and nation and tongue, they are not just 24 because there are more than 24 people groups, the number 24 is significant because it is a vision of the Levitical Priesthood, they also served in the temple 24 by lot and yet came from a group of over 24000. We see here a vision of the glorified saints serving in their heavenly offices, and they are "as angels" having inherited offices we once thought reserved only for cherubs and angels, they are seen in the 4 creatures and representing authority over the created world and say holy holy holy, as the cherubs of old, and yet they sing this song,, saying they are people redeemed by the blood. That being established, we conclude that before the very first seal is opened there are redeemed saints in heaven who are partaking of this heavenly scene. So who are they? Are they raptured saints or saints that have died and are with Christ even now? I don't know for sure. But if they are raptured saints then when does it occur? Could it be that the very translation of John is a prophetic type of the translation of the saints, so that the Voice he hears as a Trumpet saying Come up Hither (voice of the archangel and trump of God) are a type of the rapture that occurs and the next scene he is beholding glorified saints, and not only that but after the Lamb is declared the only one worthy to open the seals, these glorified saints are the ones that say COME and see, and a seal is opened, it is as if they are partaking in the releasing of the judgments that are poured out, as if the Lamb allows them to have a part. Indeed the saints shall judge the world. A common explanation for Matt 24:29-31 is that there is another gathering of saints who were saved during the tribulation. (continued on next post) |
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