Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is civil disobedience OK when... | Prov 3:13 | EdB | 105034 | ||
Kalos This is an interesting question. In scriptures we see many places where Old Testament and New Testament Saints violated various secular laws to accomplish what we would consider acts of conscience. However if like Paul we are to imitate him as he imitates Jesus we must look first at Jesus’ life. He never violated a secular law even though various things the Romans did must have revolted Him. The only time we see Jesus violate any law is when others actions violated God’s holiness, cleansing of the temple. He did violate the Jewish law or custom Sabbath but He in doing this He was clearly demonstrating His authority and position in the Godhead. However we never see Jesus decry crucifixion, slavery, graft, unfair taxation, or even persecution. Paul in his life never seemed to be involved in an social or civil protest. While he was punished and ill treated he never made an issue of the social injustice, he preached Jesus and Him crucified. Later we see all of Rome convert to Christianity not by social unrest, or even peaceful civil demonstrations but rather two things. One by prayer the most power force Christians possess and often the first overlooked. Secondly by watching how the Christians died in arena. The Christians were put there not because of their involvement in some social action but there because they refused to recant their Christianity. Saying all of this is to say seeking social justice and decision to participate in peaceful demonstration to achieve such justice is not seen of Christians in scripture. Also let me say the end result of protest often times is not always the desired result, many laws put in place to fight such things as racial prejudice here in this country are the very same laws now being used against Christians to denounce Homosexuality. Personally I believe persistent and fervent prayer of righteous men and women against social injustice is the most effective and most unused tool in Christendom today. If more people would pray and trust God, the wrong would be righted and an a new social injustice would not be created. EdB |
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2 | Is civil disobedience OK when... | Prov 3:13 | stjones | 105132 | ||
Hi, Ed; Very good points, but I see one problem in your approach (which I'll express in the first person just because it's easier to say): I'm not Jesus. I don't have his earthly ministry and I can't carry out his mission of establishing his church on earth. Jesus is my spiritual role model and goal, but I can't live his life. Like most Christians, I don't have a full-time ministry; I'm not a full-time missionary. Unlike Jesus, I have a job, a family, and a daughter to put through college. The Bible tells us about Jesus and the leaders of the early church. But what about the thousands of converts in Acts 2? There's nary a word about how they lived out their lives as faithful disciples of Christ while earning a living and raising a family. Once again, I'll flirt with what some folks will consider blasphemy - I don't find the Bible to be a very practical guide to life. Is it a sin to drive an SUV? Is it Ok for my daughter to attend a secular university? How much should I give the United Way? We celebrated my older daughter's birthday at a moderately expensive restaurant last night; should we have eaten rice and given the money to the Salvation Army instead? These are all comfortable middle-class questions; is it a sin to be middle-class? The Bible has no concrete advice. No, what the Bible does, in conjuction with the Holy Spirit, is to change me from the inside out. The Bible and Holy Spirit help me to abide by Paul's admonition: "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is – his good, pleasing and perfect will." (Romans 12:2) They don't tell me what to do in routine, every-day circumstances; they give me the "mind of Christ" (1 Corinthians 2:16) so that I can make these choices myself. I believe this is what it means to have God's law placed in my mind and written on my heart (Jeremiah 31:33). And there is another difference with respect to the question at hand. Unlike Jesus, I live in a society where citizens can participate in government at every level. The Bible and the Holy Spirit give Christians our consciences; in this way, they equip Christian citizens to act in societies and situations unlike any described in the Bible. While ours is a secular society, I would prefer to have people in office who share my values if not every one of my beliefs. Finally, I agree with you that "persistent and fervent prayer of righteous men and women against social injustice is the most effective and most unused tool in Christendom today. If more people would pray and trust God, the wrong would be righted and an a new social injustice would not be created." But I am not convinced that Rosa Parks and Dr. King were not God's instruments, used by him to answer such prayers. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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3 | Is civil disobedience OK when... | Prov 3:13 | EdB | 105196 | ||
Aw Steve you open such interesting thoughts. I see these two phrases being antagonistic of each other. The first, “Once again, I'll flirt with what some folks will consider blasphemy - I don't find the Bible to be a very practical guide to life.” and the other, “The Bible and Holy Spirit help me to abide by Paul's admonition: "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is – his good, pleasing and perfect will." (Romans 12:2)” In third paragraph you ask is it a sin to drive a SUV, send a daughter to secular college, eat a pricey restaurant, be middle class etc? The answer to these is no unless your doing it to conform to the patterns of this world. As a society we have left the things we own, where we educate our children, where and what we eat and our social status become the defining factor of what we are. Things like honesty, integrity, love, peacefulness, gentleness, faithfulness, compassion, patience, and such while looked upon as nice to have just aren’t used to define us. That is the problem, when a society stops building character and tries to legislate morality it soon declines. Character will not and does not tolerate racism, laws may drive it into the shadows but without character being present, it still exists. What did Rosa Parks and Dr. King do? They awakened our conscience showing us our lack of character. However instead of developing character we tried to fix it by legislating what is right. I submit the problem is still there just driven into the shadows. Activism did not solve the problem, the problem can only be solved by spiritual renewal. What brings spiritual renewal? Lip service? No! What brings spiritual renewal and the building of character is prayer! Prayer will also reveal our intent behind owning an SUV, sending our daughter to secular college, eating as pricey restaurants, being middle class. As a father of two daughters is beseech you my brother make sure where ever your daughter goes she is not exposed to the dangers of coed dorms. :-) EdB |
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4 | Is civil disobedience OK when... | Prov 3:13 | stjones | 105213 | ||
Hi, Ed; Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think the two statements harmonize in this way: If my children constantly ask me what they should do, they'll soon find an area where I can't help. My goal as a father is to equip them to make good decisions on their own in whatever circumstance they find themselves in. Such is the effect of renewing the Christian's mind and writing God's law on the Christian's heart. I think what Rosa Parks, Dr. King, and others did helped, but you're right that the resultant flood of legislation fell far short of its intentions. Good institutions can't make bad people good but good people can make bad institutions good. We are in complete agreement about coed dorms! There are many bad ideas in modern higher education, but that is one of the worst. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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5 | Is civil disobedience OK when... | Prov 3:13 | EdB | 105217 | ||
Steve I agree with you first paragraph as it pertains to us human fathers, however our heavenly Father is never without perfect and sound advice for any occasion, situation or problem we will ever face. EdB |
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6 | Is civil disobedience OK when... | Prov 3:13 | stjones | 105220 | ||
Hi, Ed; You're right, of course; it was only an imperfect analogy, not an equivalence. Two minor points - God's advice is not always found in the Bible and I think he likes to see us make correct choices using "the mind of Christ" he has given us. Jesus taught his disciples then sent them out, expecting them to do the job without running back to consult him every time they had to choose. They sometimes failed, of course, but they learned and grew spiritually. Grace allows us to continually exercise our renewed minds. Christian maturity is, in part, the ability to know God's will without asking. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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7 | Is civil disobedience OK when... | Prov 3:13 | EdB | 105261 | ||
Steve The Holy Spirit also has a major part in teaching us God's desire for us. The less we rely on our own decision making abilities and depend more on God, Scripture and the Holy Spirit the better off we will be. EdB |
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