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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why two dreams instead of one? | Gen 41:25 | Taleb | 110720 | ||
Tim, Scripture does say exactly WHY Pharaoh had two dreams of the same event. “The fact that the dream was sent twice to Pharaoh in two forms MEANS that the matter is absolutely settled by God, and that God will soon bring it about.” (Gen 41:32 The Bible - An American Translation). Concerning your respectful disagreement with me, I appreciate what you stated, however :) You see the differences AS differences. I see them as the same things, much like the “differences” with the cows and the grain WERE the same thing. May I suggest “an assignment”, as I read you did once? In effect, you suggested someone who pointed out the “differences” in Jesus’ resurrection to look at the four gospels as one. You even went the extra mile and painted the word picture for the world to see “how” they are NOT different, but complete. The sea isn’t going to turn to blood twice, is it? Rev 8:9 says the second trumpet sounded and one third of the SEA turned to BLOOD. Rev 16:3 says the second vial was emptied his vial upon the SEA and it turned into BLOOD. There isn’t going to be TWO “finishes” are there? The seven trumpet sounds (Rev 10:7) and “it is finished” The seventh vial is poured out with “it is all over” (Rev 16:17) Tim, if you did the same thing with the trumpets against the vials and the seals against the “angels” – you will conclude that ONLY differences are from two “viewpoints” of the same event, much like your example of the resurrection. God “set the example” in Genesis about parallels to “help” us better understand Revelations. Respectfully, Taleb |
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2 | Why two dreams instead of one? | Gen 41:25 | Morant61 | 110732 | ||
Greetings Taleb! Thanks for the Genesis reference! I missed that one! :-) Let's do the comparison on the seals, trumpets, and vials. I will list them side by side sequentially. Seal, Trumpet, and Vial: 1) White horse (conquest), 3rd earth burned up, painful sores. 2) Red horse (no peace), 3rd sea blood, sea blood. 3) Black horse (famine), 3rd springs bitter, springs bitter. 4) Pale horse (death), 3rd darkness, scorching heat. 5) Martyrs souls, locusts, darkness. 6) Earthquake, locusts released 3rd men die, Euphrates dried up. 7) Silence, mystery finished wrath has come, earthquake and hailstones. There are definitely some similarities in the list above. In some cases, the percentages increase which each sucessive series. However, there are plenty of differences as well my friend. I still see them as three sucessive series. My take on them over the years is as follows. I believe that the seals will be very general judgements that probably occur throughout history (or perhaps just during the church age). I believe that the trumpets will be more specific judgements poured out during the first half of Daniel's 70th week. I believe that the vials will be the final judgements poured out duing the second half of Daniel's 70th week. I know that some view them as the same series, but I simply have never seen anything which would lead me to believe that my friend. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Why two dreams instead of one? | Gen 41:25 | Taleb | 110739 | ||
Tim, thank you dear brother for your studies. I believe I see where you are “missing it” :) I apologize for not giving a better explanation of “how” to view them. Allow me to make another attempt, please. You listed side by side the seals, the trumpets and the vials. You are “missing” the seven angels that tie together with the seven seals. Side by side the trumpets AND the vials. Just those two, and like the cows and grain – ALL the words don’t have to be the same. And side by side the seals AND the angels. Having the same message, is what makes them the same. Much like your wonderful explanation of with the resurrection story. Trumpet one: “Hail cast upon the earth ” - Vial one: “Upon the earth … and sores” Trumpet two: “Cast onto the sea …and blood” - Vial two: “Poured upon the sea … blood” Trumpet 3: “Upon rivers and fountains …” - Vial 3: “Upon rivers and fountains” Trumpet 4: “Sun smitten” - Vial 4: “Poured upon the sun” Trumpet 5: “Bottomless pit” (who “lives” there?) - Vial 5: “Seat of the beast” Trumpet 6: “The Euphrates River” - Vial 6: “The Euphrates River” Trumpet 7: “It is finished” - Vial 7 “It is done” They aren’t only similarities in WHAT, and WHERE. But the EXACT SAME NUMBER that John uses matches those similarities. In other words, had number three trumpet match number four vial - this conversation wouldn't be happening. That they match perfectly side by side is what makes for an awful lot of “coincidences” not to mention there are NO “un-similarities” to cancel my point. I can do the exact same thing with the seals AND angels – if you wish. :) They TOO follow the same principle God gave us in Gen. Two equals one and the same. Fourth seal – death of believers Rev 6:7-8 . Fourth angel – death of believers Rev 14:13. Sixth seal “wrath of the Lamb” Sixth angel “Wrath of God”. Etc. etc. I’ve got to get to Church for some meetings. Blessings, Taleb |
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4 | Why two dreams instead of one? | Gen 41:25 | Morant61 | 110925 | ||
Greetings Taleb! Sorry I took so long to respond my friend. My son was in a state chess tournament this weekend, so I have been gone. Allow me to begin my response by stating that I don't view this subject as one where 'we' must agree. :-) It is just fun to discuss. Having said that, I see the differences as being much more significant than you do. With the dreams of the corn and the cow, the symbols were different, but the numbers and meanings were all the same. With the seals, trumpets, and vials, this is not the case (in my view). There are some strong similarities, but the intensity seems to increase. Then, there are some where there is not much similarity at all. For instance, with your first example, I see a major difference between 'hail' and 'sores'. The fact that they both occur on earth doesn't strike me as overly significant since that is where all humans live! :-) Now, your second and third examples are much more convincing. But, I see a major difference here as well in that extent of these judgements seems to increase from a percentage to all. The fourth example is only similar in that the sun is affected. But, the affect is totally different with the 4th trumpet and the 4th vial. With the first, the sun is darkened, with the latter, the sun produced scorching heat. Example 5 is a major reach! :-) Example 6 is very close, but there are some major differences as well. In the trumpet, the angels at the mouth of the river are release, while in the vial, the river is dried up. Finally, example 7 does not have to mean the 'end of all things'. The phrase 'it is finished' can simply refer to the last of that series. The 7th trumpet finishes the trumpets, while the 7th vial finishes the vials. So, I would still view them as 3 series of 7, not just 3 ways of saying the same thing. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Why two dreams instead of one? | Gen 41:25 | Taleb | 111044 | ||
Tim, you ARE correct. We don’t have to agree. As a matter of fact, I’m BEGINNING to agree with your conclusion. Once again, you "filled in some holes". While it was “fun to discuss”, this “study” I shared with TommyS is multi-years old and it has too many years since I “reviewed” it. (MY wife might try to inform you it’s been too many years since I’ve done anything right) :) Too be perfectly honest (as though being honest wasn't “perfect”) I’m beginning to think like an old relative I used to have. JUST for the sake of an argument, she would take the opposite side of someone else, even if she really agreed with the other person. I’m naughty for falling into that mold too often. :) (So much for being “perfect”.) I trust that you enjoyed watching your son participate in the state chest tournament. I have two questions. How did he do, and can YOU beat him? :) Blessings, Taleb |
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6 | Why two dreams instead of one? | Gen 41:25 | Morant61 | 111050 | ||
Greetings Taleb! He did okay! It was his first tournament and he finished 42 out of about 70 kids. The games he lost, he made some correctable mistakes. I can beat him if I am very careful! If we play 10 games, I might win 4 or 5. :-) I really enjoy your posts my friend! Keep up the good work! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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