Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Distiction in "will" not "rationality" | Gen 3:1 | Lionstrong | 153954 | ||
Rom 1:21 24 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.... Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. Luke 12:47 "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, Luke 12:48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more. RWC, I'm glad to see that my posts are still getting some circulation! But you're right! No one so far has proposed the will as that which distinguishes men and angels from the rest of creation. And I'm surprised that no one of the "free will" persuasion ever brought up your observation. But I will have to respectfully disagree. The uniqueness of men and angels is not their volition, their ability to choose; and the image of God in man is not the will. As the above quoted passages demonstrate, knowledge, not will, is the basis of responsibility. "Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin," James says. (James 4:17) Knowledge requires rationality, understanding. This, animals do not have. Ps 32:9 says, "Do not be as the horse or as the mule which have no understanding." So, the image of God is not the will, but rationality. |
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2 | Isn't the main point volition | Gen 3:1 | RWC | 154021 | ||
Thank you for your prompt reply. First a comment for clarification, and then I have two questions, if I may. You wrote: "The uniqueness of men and angels is not their volition, their ability to choose; and the image of God in man is not the will." and... "So, the image of God is not the will, but rationality." First, for clarification, I did not mean to suggest that the image of God is _simply_ our volition. Rather, I was suggesting that our volition is what makes us distinct from the rest of the animal kingdom that God created. As I understand it, there are three basic attributes that God built into humans and angels that makes us "persons". Those attributes would be intellect, emotion, and will (volition). It is, as I understand it, the combination of these same attributes that makes us "in the image of God;" that is, that we are "persons" and the rest of the animal kingdom is not. It seems to me that all animals, to one degree or another, have God-given intellectual and emotional ability. But humans (and angels) are the only created beings that possess volitional ability, and are, therefore, the only beings that are morally accountable before God. First question: You wrote: "As the above quoted passages demonstrate, knowledge, not will, is the basis of responsibility." In all three of the passages that you quote as support for this conclusion (Ro. 1, Lk. 12, and Jms 4), the main point (the problem, the issue) is centered on volition not knowledge. The whole point being made in each case is not that the humans had (or did not have) knowledge, but that they did _act_ (choose) correctly based on that knowledge. Would these verses not rather be supportive of the view that volition is basis of our accountability before the Living God, not our knowledge (or lack of)? Second question: I am wondering if we have the same basic definitions for "understanding," "knowledge," "intelligence," and "rationality." I know that you were asked about your definitions once or twice in this discussion 4 years ago, but I am still not clear as to how you have conceptualized these things. Can you please explain to me how (why) the intellect that you seem to admit that animals have is different in "kind" (and not just "degree") from the intellect that humans (and angels) have? I do ackowledge differences of _degree_ in God-given intellectual abilities between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom, and sometimes those differences are obviously vast. But it goes too far, it seems to me, to say (as I think you did in one of your previous posts) that humans have the ability to "think" and that no other animals can do that. If, however, you were to make that statement about volition rather than intellect, then I think it would be true. Does that not seem so to you? [yes, that is a third question... sorry] Have a good day! Bob |
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3 | Isn't the main point volition | Gen 3:1 | Lionstrong | 154030 | ||
Hi Bob, Please excuse the brevity of this answer. Man is not an animal. If one would look at the classifications of created things he finds in Genesis chapter one (I think a posted something along this line) he would come up with several. For example, on the fifth day God created living creatures that occupy the waters. The variety of these creatures is beyond the imagination! The same is true of those creatures he made to occupy the sky. Here you have two biblical classifications -- fish of the sea and birds of the air. But the final classification, the thing God created last is something that only one creature occupies. It is in a class by itself. It is the class of the image of God and the only creature that occupies that classification is man. The animals belong to different classes such as water, air, cattle and creeping things (v.26). Man belongs to none of those classes. Man is not an animal. Non-believers of our culture do not see man as the image of God. Man is seen as a smart animal or a machine. To our culture the difference between man and non-man is only a matter of degrees. This is not the biblical view. Man is unique among all God’s creatures. He is made in God’s image and has been give benevolent dominion over the earth and will judge angels. Yes, there are similarities in the bodies of men and animals, but that is because God has made us to live in the same environment. And the image of God is not man’s body. My point about animals is that they are not rational. They have not understanding. They do not think. “Animal intelligence” is only an expression. And I also need to add that animals are not made in the image of God nor in any degree of the image of God. I agree that a human person has thought, will and emotion. You think man is an animal and that other animals can think and emote but not choose, and that this inability to choose separates man from the “other” animals. I see no biblical basis for classifying man as an animal. And he is not an animal. He is the image of God. What distinguishes man from the animal is his rational mind, which is the image of God. Moral choices cannot be made without a rational mind. Animals cannot be immoral. One must understand the command of God in order to keep it. Adam understood and transgressed. |
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4 | Isn't the main point volition | Gen 3:1 | mark d seyler | 154032 | ||
Hi Lionstrong, I think you made some excellent points. Man is unique in God's creation. Would you agree with the idea that it was the spirit that God created man with that sets him apart from the rest of creation? Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | Isn't the main point volition | Gen 3:1 | Lionstrong | 154035 | ||
Matt 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being ("living soul" KJV). Hi Mark, It is the KIND of spirit that God created man with that sets him apart from the rest of creation. Man's spirit, the breath God breathed into man's body and into no other creature, is a unique spirit. Man's spirit is the image of God. Man's spirit is a rational mind which the animals do not possess. It is not that we have spirits and the animals do not. It is that our spirit is the image of God and therefore rational, and the animal spirits are not. So, I agree with the wording of your question, though you may not have meant it that way. "Was it the spirit that God created man with that sets him apart?" Yes, Man was created with a rational spirit after the image of God. The spirits of animals were not created this way. And they do not think; they are not rational; they are not personal. |
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