Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Heb. 6:4-6 Security | Gen 1:1 | YenIsaRap | 219803 | ||
Having endeavored to lay this out as concisely as possible. Placing it into a format, by which each verse could be examined by each of it's individual parts. Starting from the position, ( A True Believer in Christ ) cannot ever, lose their Salvation. In other words, Eternal Security, or Once Saved Always Saved. This position would, and has to also include, any possibility, of Intentionally walking away, or Unintentionally losing it. The believers spoken of in these verses of Hebrews, are True Believers in Christ. With that being the premise, how then is Hebrews 6:4-6 Interpreted ? There are only two logical conclusions, that can be arrived at, for understanding these verses. 1) The believers spoken of, (can fall away, and can never repent again). If this belief is true, then Eternal Security, is a false doctrine. 2) The believers spoken of, (will never fall away) impossible. If this belief is true, then Eternal Security is true, but why, how ? What is that one determining factor, tipping the balance one way, or the other, causing one of these two beliefs to become true, or false ? The "IF" used in vs.6, is most certainly a Hypothetical, it has to be, on account of what Paul said in vs.4. By his use of the word "IMPOSSIBLE", which moves us to an inevitable position, where the "IF" used in verse 6, has to be stated, in order to clarify the entire teaching. Paul's use of the word impossible, forces his use of the "IF", which is a Hypothetical. With that impossible, there is no other recourse, but a Hypothetical. There is no way, to "MODIFY", or "MITIGATE" an "IMPOSSIBILITY". I want to make it perfectly clear at this point. In the case of this being a Hypothetical position that Paul takes in vs.6, it does not in any way, make everything he was teaching in vs.4,5 become a Hypothetical also. With the word impossible being used here by Paul, instead of looking at the end of the teaching, the focus shifts to the beginning. He makes his case for everything in vs.4, 5 summarizing everything in the 6th. by showing what the consequences would be, ("IF"), because of the "IMPOSSIBILITY". Section 1 Heb 6:4 1) For it is impossible 2) for those who were once enlightened, 3) and have tasted of the heavenly gift, 4) and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 1) "HOW" far reaching is "IMPOSSIBLE" for the believer ? 2) "WHAT" is a believer enlightened to ? 3) "WHAT" is the heavenly gift ? 4) "HOW" are believers made to be partakers of the Holy Spirit Section 2 Heb 6:5 1) And have tasted the good word of God, 2) and the powers of the world to come, 1) "HOW" have believers tasted the good word of God ? 2) "HOW" have believers tasted the powers of the world to come.? Section 3 Heb 6:6 1) If 2) they shall fall away, 3) to renew them again unto repentance; 4) seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 1) "WHY" does Paul use the word "IF" ? 2) "What" would make a believer fall away ? 3) "What" would they not be able to repent of "AGAIN" ? 4) "What" was The Son of God crucified "FOR" ? Section 4 These last three questions are the most crucial of all the ones asked. 2) "What" would make a believer fall away ? 3) "What" would they not be able to repent of "AGAIN" ? 4) "What" was The Son of God crucified "FOR" ? With the belief, God only calls those that are the Elect, Predestined. Does he do so, for them to then lose the gift of Grace, or walk away from it ? |
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2 | Heb. 6:4-6 Security | Gen 1:1 | stjohn | 219807 | ||
Perhaps this will help... John 3:16, 1 John 5:13 both say believers "have" eternal life. Internal life is not something you receive when you die, it is something you receive when you are spiritually regenerated, i.e. born again. Those who believe have eternal life, and there is no conceivable fraction of eternal, so it means -and always will mean- forever. So those who fall away cannot have been true believers. You see it's really not all that complicated, we make it complicated. John |
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3 | Heb. 6:4-6 Security | Gen 1:1 | Beja | 219808 | ||
I think we need to be slow with this issue. Our modern time has taken a biblical concept, "once saved always saved," and added some very unbiblical thoughts to this. This is often used to argue that a person who is completely devoid of any fruits of the spirit, most notably repentance, is saved because we remember them making a profession early in life. Sometimes it is foolishly even applied to those who once professed faith but no longer even believe the gosple. What has happened is that we have striped the doctrine away from "the perseverance of the saints." Those who are saved are indeed saved eternally, but they are also kept in the faith by the power of God. Consider passages like the one in Hebrews, but also Colossians 1:21-23, Galatians 5:2-5, Hebrews 3:5-6,14. This list could be expanded but if you look up these passages you get the point. We can not simply explain away all of these. We must finally reach the point that we admit that turning from the gospel is indeed fatal. And by fatal I mean eternally damning unless there is later repentence and faith. Keep in mind the issue here is not that we sin, but that we turn from the gospel. Once saved always saved? Yes, but saving faith is life long faith. To have a faith that only lasts a certain season is to show it was not true faith at all. Is this not in harmony with Johnn when he says in 1 John 2:19 that they went out from us but weren't really of us? And that they went out from us for the purpose of showing that they were not really of us? Is this not what Jesus is portraying in the parable of the soils when he shows two soils that apparently received the gospel quickly but then later showed that they weren't the good soil? So, it would be far better that we hold tightly to the "Perseverance of the Saints" rather than to "Once saved always saved." Both teach that salvation can not be lost, but one clings fast to the doctrine of perseverance at the same time, and assures that new Christians are not ambushed by the passages I listed, and as a result think eternal security is refuted. Brother John, just for clarification I don't lay any of this at your feet personally, but only used your post as an excuse to preach. God bless you. In Christ, Beja |
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4 | Heb. 6:4-6 Security | Gen 1:1 | Val | 219814 | ||
In the Colossians 1:21-23 passage the 23rd verse says "if you continue" in the faith. This verse does not mean that continuing in the faith is what saves you. It means that the proof of your salvation is continuing in the faith. Paul explains that salvation is by grace alone through faith. Adding this verse to grace would be adding something else, in this case;works. I looked up the Galatians passage but do not see your point from this passage. The Hebrews 3:6, 14 again speaks of the proof of salvation; not the means of salvation. Whichever phrase one uses should not matter. Perseverance of the Saints, Once Saved Always Saved. The same conclusion is reached. Both teach that salvation cannot be lost. It is not new Christians that hold to these passages that they believe salvation can be lost; it is entire denominations. One comes to mind is the Nazarenes. There is a comedian in the south. A christian comedian and she says her cousin has been lost and saved a dozen times. On the other side there are those who may have assurance of salvation from man but not from God. Therefore the terminology is not the problem, it is man. |
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5 | Heb. 6:4-6 Security | Gen 1:1 | Beja | 219818 | ||
Val, You've stated that these refer to proofs of salvation, not means of salvation. To that I say a hearty amen. I'm sorry if what I typed sounded like I meant otherwise. Though I would prefer the term evidence rather than proof but I think we are of the same mind in that. The point I was trying to make is that these are evidences that God brings about in us, and not from our own doing. Not only this, but these evidences (continuing to trust in Christ via the gospel) are things that God always work in us. Therefore in situations where there is a lack of them, we say no salvation has occurred. Not because they are necessary as a means, but they always flow as a result. This is the doctrine of perseverance of the saints. That those whom God saves, He also keeps in the faith throughout their life. Summing it up: Saving faith is a life long faith. I hope this helps to clarify, my first response didn't go through but perhaps that was God's mercy. It was written hastily before church this morning and this one has a bit more organization to it. In Christ, Beja |
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