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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | srbaegon | 190485 | ||
Hello RC, I already have read Darby and Scofield and Chafer and Ryrie and...well, you get the point. :-) Steve |
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2 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | RC Scrolls | 190488 | ||
Please let me know who you have found that was Pre trib before Darby Etc. I havent had any luck and if you have I would like to know as well. Thank you very much. Love in Christ Jesus RC PS I am allways Open to what you think. Please just provide some proof. |
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3 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | Morant61 | 190490 | ||
Greetings RC! Here is a repost of one of my older posts on this issue: ********** Response........................................ Greetings Kalos! From the reading I have done, it seems that post-tribulationists have tried very hard to make it seem that a pre-tribulational rapture is a recent deveolopment in theology. However, there is evidence dating from between 300-600 a.d. of a pre-tribulational rapture. This evidence is found in a document called "Pseudo-Ephraem's Sermon." Here is a quote which discusses the nature of this document: ******************************************** "The word "Pseudo" (Greek for false) is a prefix attached by scholars to the name of a famous historical person or book of the Bible when one writes using that name. Pseudo-Ephraem claims that his sermon was written by Ephraem of Nisibis (306-73), considered to be the greatest figure in the history of the Syrian church. He was well-known for his poetics, rejection of rationalism, and confrontations with the heresies of Marcion, Mani, and the Arians. As a poet, exegete, and theologian, his style was similar to that of the Jewish midrashic and targumic traditions and he favored a contemplative approach to spirituality. So popular were his works that in the fifth and sixth centuries he was adopted by several Christian communities as a spiritual father and role model. His many works, some of doubtful authenticity, were soon translated from Syriac into Greek, Armenian, and Latin." (http://millennianet.com/atpro4se/ancient.html) ********************************************** The relevant quotation is quoted below: "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins." -Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627)" The true authorship and the quality of the document are not really that important for this discussion. The important part is that we have a clear pre-tribulational statement dating over 1000 years before Darby or Margaret McDonald. Thus, the belief itself has been around for much longer than 150 years. I hope this helps! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | RC Scrolls | 190514 | ||
Thats really good,and I do appreciate it.Thak you very much. I was a Dispenstionalist for probably 10 yrs. However after studying the cream of the crop, Lindsay, Le Haye, Walvoord, Dewight Pentacost, I became very suspicious. When I did a comparative study between all, They all had different Revelation on the same scriptures, which made me very disgruntled. I Asked the Lord to allow me to study this subject of Eschatology. It took me 8 years to discover what I did, not just with internal Biblical evidence but External aswell. And I don't mean a little here and there but atleast three to 6 hours at a time for Eight yrs Daily. I am neither a Pre or post Triber or Mid for that matter. I fail to see that if something has been fullfilled completely, why does it have to be done again, And I don't mean a double Prophesy as in Tyre which had Different time fulfillments. I started with the Dating of Revelation from all the accounts that we have and took off from there. From Ireneus's statement about its Date on up. I have come to a conclusion that Dispensationalism is very Anti Semetic in the Fact that God would once again chastise Israel by killing two thirds of them off while protecting the Church from the same time period. When He has let all the Myrters die throughout History, I mean God forbid the Church is the Church . And to think that another Temple is to be built and to use Christians to Help fund it Zionists,I believe is Blasphemus. I wish that most people could Debate without argument, because I dont think the Lord wants it that way. I will always apppreciate the Different views even though I hold to another, I just wish Men would do the study for them selves in stead of regurgitating what they have heard and studied from others. Eschatology isn't as wound up and difficult as its made to be. And since we dont have another book to be written, then Revelation should be able to be Grasped from Scripture itself.Other whys we have a very Subjective book. When most of Rev is in Scripture for what I have come away with. I am greatful and thankful for what I have learned in the last eight yrs and will write about it. I will pose just one question here and that is this, Why would God Tell Daniel to Seal His book (scroll) up for the time was so far off (approx 536 yrs) and tell John not to seal His book up for the Time is at hand. 2,000 plus yrs, When in reality its not to be fulfilled for Millenials away in the future times. Anyway I said I would only ask one question, so there it is. God Bless Love in Christ Jesus RC |
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5 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | jlhetrick | 190517 | ||
Hello RC- You wrote: "I have come to a conclusion that Dispensationalism is very Anti Semetic in the Fact that God would once again chastise Israel by killing two thirds of them off while protecting the Church from the same time period" Where on earth did you get that idea?? Jeff |
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6 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | RC Scrolls | 190520 | ||
Its what dispensationalists Beleive, a New Temple etc. Can you imagine after God Destroyed the Temple, having another one built, and sacrifices starting up again. Which I am firm belief, that it will never Happen. I just wonder what people will do if Israel as a place gets taken out someday. Dipensationalists view demands that hords of Jews will be killed again. Love in Christ Jesus RC |
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7 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | jlhetrick | 190538 | ||
RC- with all respect to you my friend might I suggest that you have made your position clear and recommend that you be done with the topic. It is not in accordance with the Terms of Use of this forum to base one's theological position on one's feelings and opinion. You have made several posts (which I have read carefully) where you basically offer to the rest of us that you are in the "right" camp and many or most others are in the "wrong" camp. Your entire argument, thusfar, has been based on feelings, thoughts, and opinion that were supposedly developed over "8 years" of study. Yet, you offer little to nothing from Scripture to support your position. I'm not asking that you do offer support for your position here as that would be, in my opinion, unproductive. After all, you have only studied the topic for 8 years. More correctly put, "at least three to 6 hours for 8 years daily". Personally I can see why you are so impressed with yourself- I have struggled to stay with a single topic for 8 weeks, even 8 days in many cases. Still, if you can appreciate that your 8 years of study really do not compare to centuries of study and debate by greater minds than yours and mine then perhaps you might agree that further debate here would be unproductive. After all, you yourself admitted that you "came to find out after my study that what I came up with is what the Church beleived for 1800 yrs." I'm glad you admit that. It's always concering when one comes along believing that God has given him a personal, special, and new revelation that He hasn't given to His Church. God bless, Jeff |
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8 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | RC Scrolls | 190574 | ||
Hi Jeff, in almost 6 years on the forum I haven’t ever had such a negative response. I would like to know something, are you a Moderator or a forum member. I really don’t think you know my position as I have not revealed it to anyone. And since you try to declare me as a self professed esoteric person (new Revelation) I would like you to clarify just what is it that’s got you in such a bind. I haven’t seen anyone justify a Dispensationalist point of view, yet many make comments and opinions about their view with out having to (back it up) with scripture as you are wanting me to do. The terms of use on the Forum doesn’t seem to be present when others have their opinion including Atheists. I find it hard to believe that you wish to scrutinize me to a higher standard than others. It is not my intent to call anyone wrong or right, yet that is exactly what the forum doing in this case with me. I adhere to the Bible for my interpretation and am known for sticking to what I can prove and demanding scriptural answers. I live in a world as we all do where everything is called into question, and that is my intent here, to offer points of view that have been held by the Church for centuries. Having a different point of view, is a wonderful communion with others in the body of Christ, it sharpens some and corrects others. I just don’t understand like I said that You want me to give proof, when so many others statements are just taken at adherum. In Seminary the study of Revelation is a settled course, in which it is studied for about 6 months. One of my Pastors has been studying the Bible for 48 yrs and admits that the Doctrine He learned in Seminary was never questioned, although He himself is an Author of multiple books on the subject. I am not so very impressed with my self either, I actually take this statement as a character bashing. I am grateful to the Lord for seeing me through the course, as I have had to read all the History from about 500 BC until this Day, not just Biblical writings but those like Josephus and His 28 volumes, as well as all the Church Fathers. I can assure you this one thing that what I have studied and have finally come to a conclusion on concerning Eschatological views is Backed up by more People in the History of the Church than a Dispensationalist view, I’m sorry to say. I know that God doesn’t give anyone special revelation, That’s why we have His word, all is Revealed to us already. At this point I would like you to share with me just what view do you believe. I could start listing some thirteen hundred pages of my documented proof, including Historical Facts dates Etc, however I don’t believe that it would be put to good use, for more often than not people will not dare to open their minds, regardless to what History holds. All the People of Church History that may have been pre trib before 1800 AD would fit on one hand. And as I have stated the other view was held by most of the Church for over 18 centuries now. I pray that this is not taken the wrong way, for I am a very Loving Christian. If the result is that The Study bible forum is only a place for Dispensationalists then let me know. Love in Christ Jesus RC |
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9 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | jlhetrick | 190580 | ||
I believe that one of the strengths of SBF is the ability and willingness of the members to monitor ourselves and for each of us to offer feedback to others when we feel something needs to be addressed. Like you have done in your response to me. So to be specific regarding our exchange I want to address a few points as well as hopefully clarify where I believe I may have been misunderstood. First of all, it is of the highest importance to me, that you fully understand that I did not say nor suggest that you claimed a “new revelation”. Quite the contrary- my comment was meant to express my relief that you in fact did not claim something new evidenced by your pointing out that your conclusions were consistent with what the church has believed for 1800 years. As for me not knowing your “position as I have not revealed it to anyone” I am simply puzzled by that. It seems your position was revealed clearly in more than one post- just not with any biblical support. I stop short of commenting on whether it is consistent with what the church has believed for 1800 years as you claim; other than to say that your not believing in a pre-, middle- or post-tribulation rapture does not seem consistent to me. Admittedly I am no expert regarding escatology. In truth, I am probably little more than a sheep with a simple “baaah” to contribute to a serious conversation of the issue. I have listened to and read/studied some on my own though to include Hank Hanegraaff and Steve Gregg, more current commentators on the topic if those names are not familiar to you. Regarding my response as being the most negative you have seen on this forum in almost 6 years I apologize, sincerely. After rereading it myself I do agree that the tone could definitely be received as being negative, and fairly so. In my line of work I am tasked with resisting being politically correct for fear that it may corrupt me. The truth is far better even at the risk of your intentions being poorly delivered or misunderstood. For that I apologize to you and the other forum members. It was not meant to be negative but redirecting. There really was/is no way for me to know that you are “known for sticking to what I can prove and demanding scriptural references” as prior to my responding to you there just wasn’t that much revealed by researching your history. Actually, instead of almost 6 years, your user profile showed you as having less than 5 months as a forum member and only 20 or so posts at the time of my response. Knowing that members who have their account revoked are not permitted to ever reregister and it is a violation of the Terms of Use to have more than one user profile I’m sure there is a legitimate explanation. That, however, is between you and Lockman and you don’t owe me an explanation of course. RC, the bottom line is this (for me). You complain in your response that you “haven’t seen anyone justify a Dispensationalist point of view yet…” while presenting yourself as one who is known for “sticking to what I can prove and demanding scriptural answers.” Simply put, you didn’t live up to that in a string of post and now your upset because someone challenged that. Perhaps it’s my own biased view that positions me to believe that if there is anything that (I) would expect someone to learn after a serious study of the issue is that it is highly debatable on many points and centuries of scholarship hasn’t resolved it; so what is the point of debating it here? There are significant limitations to a public forum. Finally- the Terms Of Use for the forum are “always” present and yes, including Atheists. We are all responsible for adhering to them and should be active in challenging others to do the same. Have you found a better online forum to participate in? I haven’t; I would like to see this one survive. If you wish to respond further on this issue I believe it would be more appropriate in private. I would have sent this in private but you don’t have a user profile and have not given an option to notify you via email. My email is listed in my user profile. God bless, Jeff |
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10 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | RC Scrolls | 190586 | ||
You are welcome. I do have two user profiles, because I started getting emails that were less than what one would call inapropriate, we changed my User profile. I think that maybe both of us are determined to the point that we miss each other when we defend ourselves, I have been in that situation before.Any how I will list my scriptures and Historical evidences when I state anything that you may take as opinion. I appreciate your input, I just didnt have a clear enough picture. I do post scripture when asked to verify something. But like I said I dont understand why others arent asked the same. I didnt feel it neccasary to list scripture since it already hant been done by others with their views. My other profile is RC Scroll. Love in christ Jesus RC |
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11 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | Hank | 190589 | ||
RC - Just to "clear the decks" so to speak, there are four statements with which every registrant acknowledges agreement every time he submits a post. The first of those four statements is, "This post is biblically based and WHENEVER POSSIBLE (emphasis mine), I have included Bible references to support it." This applies to every post and to every registrant who enters a post. Since this is a web site dedicated to Bible study, it goes without saying that users are expected to support their theological/doctrinal positions with adequate scriptural proof without being asked. The Forum has changed somewhat since your former association with it several years ago, and you may find that the guidelines are more closely observed. Things tended to get a bit loosey-goosey back when the Forum was young, but measures have been taken to make this a more orderly Forum, a better-behaved one, and, it is hoped, one that is more useful and trustworthy. --Hank | ||||||
12 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | RC Scrolls | 190592 | ||
Thank you Hank along time since Ive talked to you. I will take that too heart and will be sure to post my scriptures alongside aswell. I just havent seen anyone else do it,(ie Rapture Etc) so I naturally thought that maybe an Old view from Church History would be understood aswell in the same light. If it needs to be proven then I will take it on Gladdly. You have a nice Day Love in Christ Jesus RC |
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13 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | Hank | 190594 | ||
Thank you, RC. I appreciate your fine attitude exemplified by your willingness to follow Forum guidelines closely. --Hank | ||||||