Results 401 - 420 of 494
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Results from: Notes Author: stjones Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
401 | Women and hair | 1 Cor 11:5 | stjones | 79232 | ||
Greetings, unsigned; Where Paul did write about roles specific to the body of Christ - preacher, teacher, evangelist, prophet, adminstrator, servant, encourager, etc. - he said nothing about gender. Paul wrote that our unity in Christ transcends the boundaries mentioned in Galatians 3, including gender. So do our roles and responsibilites as members of the body of Christ. Marriage is obviously a different matter because it pre-dated the body of Christ and was ordained by God for his own purposes. A marriage can consist only of one man and one woman - highly gender-specific. But nowhere does the Bible say that gifts of the Holy Spirit are gender-specific. Since Scripture does not contradict itself, I have no choice to but conclude that Paul was addressing idiosyncratic situations in difficult churches. Otherwise, his words about freedom and unity in Christ would apply everywhere but within the body of Christ. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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402 | Women and hair | 1 Cor 11:5 | stjones | 79255 | ||
Greetings, Searcher; It just seems so terse without a signature. :-) In my view, those who say that God wishes to silence women are ignoring most of the Gospel, replacing grace with laws that have little basis when the whole of Scripture is taken into account. Two obscure passages in two intensely personal epistles do not a doctrine make, especially when they directly contradict principles that the same writer sprinkles throughout virtually everything he has written. I passed on the master/slave reference out of courtesy. I would contend that master and slave are roles that are displeasing to God and have absolutely no place in the body of Christ - see Philemon. The political and civil obligations that slaves have to masters are left at the door of the church. If you are were to suggest that Paul is endorsing those roles by acknowledging their existence, you would come perilously close to the justification used by the the slave traders of the 18th and 19th centuries. I assume you have no interest in doing that. I simply can't find a reason to believe that Paul meant to throw away freedom and unity in Christ and put women under laws that do not burden men. But that's my reading of the Bible. If you and your church (especially the women) believe that God really wants women to be silent, I have no reason to interfere. In the unlikely event you come to my church and promote the idea, I will oppose you - as soon as the women quiet down. :-) Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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403 | Women and hair | 1 Cor 11:5 | stjones | 79457 | ||
Greetings, Radioman2; You asked: "are you saying that the apostle Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, contradicts himself? Are you saying that God, the Holy Spirit, contradicts Himself?" No. It appears to me that those who say God contradicts himself are the very ones who interpret these passages to mean that God desires to put women under a new law. I don't believe that God contradicts himself. I believe that the grace, unity, and freedom of Christ extend to all believers in all places. That is what the Bible teaches and it is what Paul wrote in most of his epistles. Do you greet your brothers and sisters in Christ with a holy kiss? (2 Corinthians 13:12) If not, you are just as guilty as a woman who speaks up in church. Unless, of course, Paul wrote some things that are not requirements but suggestions. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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404 | Women and hair | 1 Cor 11:5 | stjones | 79461 | ||
Hi, Hank; Based on a similar response from Radioman2, I seem not to have written very clearly. I assure you I have not abandoned my Reformed tradition or my high view of Scripture. I should have said there is an "apparent" paradox between Paul's consistent message of grace and freedom and what he says about women in church. If Paul were indeed setting down rules that were binding on all believing women in all places, he would be Saul again, knowing, observing, and enforcing the law. But this is Paul, the inspired apostle who set down the theology of grace, forgiveness, unity, and freedom in Christ. Unlike Saul, Paul was not in the business of imposing dead rules on people. So I can't find any way to harmonize the theology of the New Testament with a new law for women only. I am left to conclude that Paul was addressing particular situations in particular churches and being obedient to the Holy Spirit in doing so. I also conclude that it is an error in interpretation to assert that his instructions to those churches at that time were normative for all Christians at all times. In short, my belief is that those who find God contradictory are those who find a new law for women in the midst of grace. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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405 | "Speaking in tongues"? | 1 Cor 14:15 | stjones | 145143 | ||
... all of the gifts were important and beneficial when properly used. True. When God gives a gift, He gives it for a purpose. Thanks for the reply. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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406 | How to harmonize this passage | 1 Cor 14:34 | stjones | 109077 | ||
Hi, Rowdy; Thanks for the reply. As I said, that's the usual response. But no, I wouldn't suggest that we not follow God's word. I would suggest we make every effort to understand what God's word - ALL of God's word - is telling us to do. If God's word teaches that we are one in Christ, that in Christ there is no male nor female, that we live under grace and not under the Law, then I want to be very careful about telling my sister in Christ that that those things don't apply to her as they do me because there's a fragment of the Law still in force that says I can talk and she can't: "They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says." (1 Corinthians 14:34) A statement and its negation can't both be true. Yet those who would silence women seem to have no trouble with the idea that with respect to believers, God ordains unity, equality, and freedom and God ordains division, inequality, and Law. I can't wrap my brain around that idea. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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407 | How to harmonize this passage | 1 Cor 14:34 | stjones | 109085 | ||
Hi, Rowdy; Thanks for the invite. I approach this question from the perspective of trying to study and understand God's will as revealed in the Bible. That's not to say that there wouldn't be value in seeing your particular application of God's word, just that my focus (for now, at least) is on what the Bible teaches. As a believer, I've often been challenged with "contradictions" in the Bible. Every one that's been presented to me has been nonsense - passages taken out of context or misinterpreted, assuming that every act described in the Bible reflects God's will - that sort of foolishness. But this to me looks like a real contradiction - one passage that seems to conflict with many other passages. I realize that God is not double-minded about anything; I just can't figure out how to resolve it. And of course, this isn't just an intellectual exercise. My church reflects the unity/equality/freedom end of the scale by ordaining women as deacons, elders, and pastors. But maybe it is in error and should reflect the 1 Corinthians 14 end by not ordaining women to those offices. For now, I believe that my church is obedient to the principles taught in the New Testament. But I asked because it's still a question in my mind. Anyway, thanks for the dialog. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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408 | How to harmonize this passage | 1 Cor 14:34 | stjones | 109152 | ||
Thanks, Ray; You've given me a promising new direction to think about. I'm going to have to chew on this for a while.... -Indy |
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409 | How to harmonize this passage | 1 Cor 14:34 | stjones | 109160 | ||
Hi, Rowdy; I hate to quote myself, but I can't make my dilemma any clearer than this: If God's word teaches that we are one in Christ, that in Christ there is no male nor female, that we live under grace and not under the Law, then I want to be very careful about telling my sister in Christ that that those things don't apply to her as they do me because there's a fragment of the Law still in force that says I can talk and she can't. I'm not convinced it is obedient to the whole of God's word to silence a person because of gender when God's word clearly states that "in Christ", there is no gender (Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11 expresses a similar idea). We're not talking about marriage which is a relationship between two based on gender. We're talking about the relationship of one member of the body to another and to the body as a whole. Neither male nor female is the head because Christ is the head (Colossians 1:18). To be completely honest, these words sound like Saul the Pharisee: "They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says" (1 Corinthians 14:34). If there is another passage where Paul says that a believer under grace is still bound by the Law, I'd like someone to show it to me. My original question was how to harmonize this Saul-like passage with the rest of Paul's letters. Your response has been to "just do it". Sorry, but no. You can accuse me "outright disobedience" if you like. Perhaps it is "outright disobedience" to pick an isolated passage that replaces grace with the Law and use it to silence one's equals. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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410 | How to harmonize this passage | 1 Cor 14:34 | stjones | 109176 | ||
Hi, Rowdy; I think we're both trying to make our points - more accurately, I think we're both trying to explain the points we see made in Scripture. No malice assumed or intended. You said: "the scriptures I've seen so far haven't given any support to the idea that women are allowed equal standing in the church with men." To which I reply: "all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galations 3:27-28) You said: "Still anxiously waiting for anyone else to respond." To which I reply: "Amen, brother!" Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones who, sadly, now has to go to work.... |
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411 | Issues with LDS religion | Gal 5:7 | stjones | 107712 | ||
Hi, Chochma; Based on your profile, you seem to believe in almost everything. That is the logical equivalent of believing in nothing. The problem with alleged sequels to the Bible (the most famous being the Qur'an and the Book of Mormon) is that to believe them is to disbelieve the Bible they claim as their basis. Both of these books say, in effect, "my foundation is the Bible; however, the Bible is wrong". What kind of doublespeak is that? If the Bible is true, the sequels are false; if a sequel is true, the Bible and the other sequels are false. Belief in what these books say is akin to a famous logical conundrum: "The next sentence is true. The previous sentence is false." If the first is true, the second is also true; but if the second is true, then the first is false. If the first is false, then so is the second and if it's false then the first is true. And so it goes. Perhaps you can make sense of these sentences. I can't. Likewise, I can't make sense of a book that says the Bible is true and then contradicts it. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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412 | Issues with LDS religion | Gal 5:7 | stjones | 107820 | ||
Hi, Chochma; You want contradictions in the Bible? I could point you to several sophomoric web sites that claim to reveal "contradictions". They are all hosted by people who can read words but can't understand them. There are not many on this forum who are fooled by them. I'll reply to your alleged "contradictions", but please - no more. Deuteronomy 4:2 instructs the Israelites not to change the Law given to Moses. Neither Joshua nor Jesus did so. God certainly did not say that he would be silent from that point on. God's continued involvement with humanity is what the rest of the Bible is about. James does not contradict the doctrine of savlation by faith alone. James says that faith does not sit idly by, it shows outward signs. No outward signs, no faith. We certainly shall strike Luther Calvin, and Zwingli if we are seeking God's word. Unlike Muhammad and Joseph Smith, they did not claim to be recipients of a private divine revelation. I agree that believers can and sometimes do turn the Bible into an idol; I've said so myself on this forum. But it is not the greatest idol of all. The human intellect and its worldly products are the greatest idols of all. God is not contained in a book; his word is. It is reliable; the human intellect is not. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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413 | When should a person leave a church? | Ephesians | stjones | 103710 | ||
Hi, WilBo; Thanks for your response. A dry church is no church at all. Jesus said the world would know us by our love for each other. No love, no church. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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414 | Do we "use" the Spirit as we shoul? | Eph 1:13 | stjones | 27800 | ||
Hi, Search; I think that is the key to visible manifestation. I received the Holy Spirit when I was saved. That was the easy part. The hard part is to learn to yield to his leading. I still tend to think I have a better plan which, of course, interferes with the outward manifestation that God intends. Was I "filled"? I don't know; I've still got a few sizeable leaks. But God still uses cracked vessels. Peace and grace and a blessed and merry Christmas, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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415 | Storing Up Treasure | Eph 2:1 | stjones | 105736 | ||
Hi, Makarios; You said "There are no redeeming qualities in those who are not saved." I must disagree - not to pick on you, my friend, but because I have heard Christians say this and it has always troubled me. First, I assume you didn't mean "redeeming" in its narrow theological sense. There are no redeeming qualities because, as you know, it is Jesus who redeems, not any qualities of our own. So I asume you meant the word in its more common sense of "virtuous" or "worthwhile". I think this comment is contrary to both the Bible and everyday experience. Saved or not, we are all created in God's image. I don't believe that sin has the power to completely obliterate every hint of God's qualities within even the most reprobate member of God's creation. (As a Presbyterian, I hope I'm not sending Calvin spinning in his grave.) For example, there are several instances in Acts of Gentiles worshipping God before they were saved (Cornelius, Lydia, Titius Justus). Surely they exhibited some virtuous or worthwhile qualities. I seldom rely on extra-Biblical sources, but I agree with C. S. Lewis that in a quarrel, even the most hardened atheist will appeal to an innate sense of fair play - a concept of right and wrong that is part of our nature imparted by God. My own experience confirms this. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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416 | Storing Up Treasure | Eph 2:1 | stjones | 105744 | ||
Indeed so. See you there. - Indy |
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417 | Who are the "SO-CALLED CHRISTIANS"? | Eph 2:8 | stjones | 21312 | ||
Hello, Tom; Thanks for the reply. I am indeed saved but I appreciate your concern and your willingness to share the good news with me. To be honest, I was feeling kind of grouchy when I read your note, and probably read it wrong. I thought you were saying that a Christian who doesn't know that faith is a gift of God is not really a Christian at all. I'm sure you weren't saying that, so I apologize for misreading you. I occasionally run across folks - I'm sure you have too - who tell me that if you don't dot this "i" the right way or cross that "t" according their rules, then your're not really a Christian. It annoys me when somebody like that tells me I'm not a Christian. But then I just remember that "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment." (1 Corinthians 2:15) Anyway, thanks for the answer. In the future, I'll try to keep my bad moods to myself. ;-) Peace and grace, Steve |
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418 | Where is the edification of the pope? | Eph 2:8 | stjones | 100640 | ||
Amen, mommapbs. What will he do with us in Heaven if we can't get along here (not accusing Born2LoveHim of failure to get along with his Catholic comrade)? Somehow I don't think he'll provide denominational neighborhoods so we can stick with "our own". Indy |
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419 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | stjones | 50107 | ||
Hi, GandT; Thanks for the note. Since the Bible doesn't say that Catholics and Presbyterians can't be saved and since neither one of us thinks that our denomination saves us and since we are both saved by faith in Jesus, there's nothing to look up. :-) Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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420 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | stjones | 50115 | ||
Hi, GandT; Well, I didn't mean to imply that I don't study the Bible or that I have no need to look anything up. ;-) I just meant that with respect to Catholicism, Presbyterianism, or any other denomination, doctrine is inferior to Scripture. If the Bible says I'm saved, I'm saved; I wouldn't join with a denomination that says I'm not. I'm sure my sister-in-law feels the same. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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