Results 181 - 200 of 494
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Results from: Notes Author: stjones Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
181 | Midianites reappear? | Num 31:1 | stjones | 109048 | ||
Hi, Terry; At some point, everyone has to decide if the Bible is truthful or not. If I decide that it is not truthful, then apparent inconsistencies and contradictions can easily be found and my choice appears to be upheld. If I decide that it is truthful, then I try to resolve these apparent inconsistencies and contradictions. Having decided that it is truthful, I offer the following observations: God told Moses to "take vengeance" on the Midianites (v.2); "vengeance" does not necessarily imply complete destruction. The account makes it plain that of the Midianites attacked, all the men and boys were killed. It is not known if all Midianites everywhere were attacked. (The campaign SEEMS to have been fairly short with no real travel, pursuit, or "search and destroy" missions involved, but that's just my opinion.) Further, this vengeance was presumably in the context of worshipping the Baal of Peor (v.16, Numbers 25:16-18). It seems reasonable that the population of Midianites responsible would be the subject of this vengeance. But, again, this does not exclude the survival of nomadic Midianites who were not in the immediate area and not party to Israel's sin. Hope this helps. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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182 | How do we respond to war as Christians? | Deut 7:2 | stjones | 23764 | ||
Support for Tim (and Radioman); Tim made an important distinction - Jesus taught people how to live and act toward one another. I can't recall anything he said about how states should behave toward one another. Jesus taught us that we ought not hate bin Laden and Al Qaeda or seek to kill them out of hatred or revenge. It could certainly be a matter of individual conscience, however, whether one ought to serve in the military and perhaps kill them as an act of war: "For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience." (Romans 13:3-5) The terrorists are evil-doers. It doesn't look to me as though the one who uses the sword in the ruler's name to punish them is committing a sin. Peace and grace, Indiana Jones, formerly "Steve" (too many Steves around here) |
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183 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68320 | ||
Nice try, kalos. We know what you meant. ;-) Indy (married 28 years to one woman) |
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184 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68321 | ||
You said "... the use of the verses dealing with a man multiplying wives to himself is also a common blunder made by many. The same context deals with a man multiplying horses and chariots to himself. Are we then to assume that it is wrong for a man to own more than one horse, or more than one car chariot)? Not so. The idea of multiplying women, horses and chariots had to do with pride in one's wealth" IMHO, this statement invalidates your entire argument. If you actually believe that a wife is a woman owned by a man to show off his wealth, then you clearly have no idea of what Biblical marriage actually is. You said "It is my thought that we would do better to abstain from pitting God's word against itself and read it for what it says. ... Any of us can weave a doctrinal tapestry by pulling verses out of context. The REAL challenge is keeping that tapestry from unraveling when pulling on the many wild threads hanging loose." I agree; you have demonstrated the difficulty. Please cite a passage that represents "God's clear teaching" that the perfect relationship ordained in the Garden was not normative. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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185 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68520 | ||
Hi, Don; You said: "What exactly, may I ask, is your point in twisting my statement into something that I was not saying? I am simply perplexed about your motives, that's all" It was you who compared "multiplying women" to "multiplying horses" and you who mentioned pride in wealth in the context of having multiple wives. I don't blame you for backing off somewhat. You said "As to your statement that I claimed to know of a declaration made by God that polygamy was His perfect ideal for marriage is a fabrication" I made no such statement; I challenged you to find Scripture rather than speculation to back your assertion that Adam just got short-changed when he was only given one wife. As for your comments about David, it is foolishness to assume that David's example is normative. When Jesus taught about marriage, he didn't point to David as his example, he pointed to Adam and Eve (one man, one woman). I'm afraid that being "well schooled in philosophy" has blinded you to God's word. Understanding the Bible is less dependent on the ability to "lay out the facts and rationally paint a picture by what is given" than on the ability to discern the character of God. I suggest that is the meaning Proverbs 3:5-6: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight" Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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186 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68574 | ||
Hi, Don; If I am anti-intellectual by your standards, I will be happy to stand with 2,000 years of other anti-intellectuals who, like me, have failed to find in the Bible the same novel view of marriage that you have uncovered. You string words together well, but it will take more than cleverly worded speculation to overthrow two millenia of orthodox Christian thought. Incidentally, I suggested the passage in Proverbs because, having studied philosophy in both undergraduate and graduate school, I have learned some of the shortcomings of approaching the Bible as if it were just another text. Sometimes it's necessary to set the intellectualizing aside and simply listen to the Holy Spirit. The Bible isn't a philosophical work, it's the revealed wisdom of the God. Its goal is not to develop a system of metaphysics and ethics; its goal is to reveal the character of God and to bring people to faith in Jesus. Its purpose is spiritual, not intellectual. Its deepest meaning cannot be apprehended by mere human reason. See 1 Corinthians 2:6-16. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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187 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68580 | ||
LOL! Hank, you are incorrigible - or incurable - or incorruptible - or something. Indy |
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188 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68684 | ||
Thanks, Makarios; In the end, we always measure the words posted here against what the Bible says, not what the poster claims the Bible says. When my intellect gets beyond what the Bible teaches, there's always someone here to humble me. The ones most likely to make me reconsider are those who, over time, have demonstrated, first, wisdom concerning the character of God, and second, Biblical knowledge. (Agreement on doctrine is a distant third.) It's interesting that nearly all of that group (including you, brother) have chimed in on this thread. One can only hope that Don would recognize and avail himself of the collective wisdom in this discussion. Or at least the humor. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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189 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68943 | ||
Joe; Nice catch. Indy |
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190 | Double portion is really only two-thirds | 2 Kin 2:9 | stjones | 33942 | ||
Hi, charis; Without intending to be critical of either of you or Searcher, this, um, discussion illustrates a pet peeve of mine. I get a little nervous when folks who don't read ancient Hebrew (or Greek) start to interpret the meaning of a specific word in a specific passage. Strong's proves both of you right (which I've noticed is often the case in this kind of discussion). The real meaning of the word only becomes clear in the context of the original ancient Hebrew (or Greek) and maybe not even then. The English word "anoint" (which no Biblical writer ever heard of) clearly has multiple meanings. Which shade of meaning applies in this passage or that is better left up to the translators. Which is why having only one translation of the Bible is like archery with one hand tied behind your back. At any rate, I can't imagine what could possibly be the theological significance of whether or not "anoint" applies in this passage. BTW, I belong to a mainstream denomination and, trust me, the meaning of "anoint" isn't even on the radar screen. Our leadership is busy tring to figure out what we mean when we say ministers, elders, and deacons are supposed to be in faithful, heterosexual marriage or chaste. You folks go ahead and split hairs over "anoint"; we're busy splitting atoms over "chaste". Sigh. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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191 | Double portion is really only two-thirds | 2 Kin 2:9 | stjones | 34063 | ||
Hi, charis; Too much time on our hands - our Korean and African brothers and sisters have told our denominational leaders as much. The absence of theologians is probably a good thing. Most of the modern variety seem to approach the Bible with an attitude of "what can I find in here to back up my position?". Oh, well. I'm a panmillenialist - it'll all pan out in the end (old joke, but true). Our church supports a missionary in the vicinity of Tokyo. She teaches music at a Christian school and pastors a small house church. Just so you'll know you're not the only former Hoosier in Japan. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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192 | Double portion is really only two-thirds | 2 Kin 2:9 | stjones | 34064 | ||
Hi, Curt; I'm happy to say our church joined the CCM several months ago. You may recall a pastor named Walt Ungerer who ran for Moderator a few years ago - a staunch evangelical. He was our senior pastor until he retired last year. Many congregations and presbyteries do remain faithful but the bureaucracy and the seminaries it supports seem beyond redemption. About a quarter of the "people in the pews" support the current pro-gay initiative while half of the ordained ministers do. Support is even greater among ministers who do not pastor a church. Come to think of it, I guess that's a good thing - the most misguided ones are not in a position to mislead a congregation week in and week out with their screwball theology. ;-) Still, the Covenant Network has promised to bring this up every year until they succeed. After a while, you'd think charges would be brought for willful disruption of the "peace, unity, and purity of the church" (a de-frockable offense, I believe). I'm not holding my breath. :-( Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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193 | Explain million year old dinosaurs. | Job | stjones | 30234 | ||
Hi, Hank; You and I disagree on how to interpret Genesis 1 and I don't want to get that started again. But what you say of atheists and most evolutionists is right on. I have engaged in many discussions with atheists and Darwinians and tried to show them that they start with a leap of faith far more breathtaking than mine. Eventually, they are reduced to the meaningless assertion that I can't prove to their staisfaction that God exists. Duh. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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194 | why was it three days? | Job | stjones | 43458 | ||
Hi, ethan; I doubt anyone on earth knows the answer to your question. God picked the interval and to my knowledge did not explain his reason. Any answer you get will therefore be pure speculation. Some questions just don't have answers. Speaking of speculation, why do you suppose it was three days? Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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195 | a righteous man | Job 1:8 | stjones | 58222 | ||
Hi, Darktanianxx; Unless God was being sarcastic in this verse, I have to disagree with your observations about Job's pride. I'll take God at his word; He considered Job "upright and blameless" [NIV]. Granted, there were times when Job was defending himself to his friends that he may have sounded a little prideful. It's hard to avoid speaking well of oneself when answering false accusations. Don't forget what God said to Eliphaz, one of those who accused Job: "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." (42:7) Indeed, if Job was just being punished for his sin then the story has no distinctive message at all. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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196 | a righteous man | Job 1:8 | stjones | 58224 | ||
Hi, John; Thanks for the encouragement. The grain of faith that Job held onto was certainly a gift of God and God knew that it would sustain him. But if we have free will, Job could have followed his wife's advice to "curse God and die". God can't fail; Job could have. I think the story exists in part because it was important for both Job and us to see this victory. This is reminiscent of God's testing of Abraham. God knew that Abraham's faith and obedience were such that he was indeed prepared to sacrifice Isaac. It was Abraham (and us) who needed to know. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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197 | a righteous man | Job 1:8 | stjones | 58246 | ||
Greetings, Darktanianxx; I don't agree that Job's own words to God override what God said about him. Job was repentng of his near-blasphemey during his arguments with his friends. But we can agree to disagree. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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198 | a righteous man | Job 1:8 | stjones | 58256 | ||
Hi, John; As I said, it was God's gift of faith, not Job's virtue or strength, that won the day. Job could have chosen to act on something other than the faith (and strength) that God gave him. He had both the liberty and the ability to just "curse God and die". God knew that Job would make the right choice but God did not force him to make it. God both initiated the contest and selected Job as his champion. From God's perspective outside of time, I imagine it was a safe move. From ours, it was a risk that teaches us a lot about God's love and the imporance he attaches to us. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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199 | a righteous man | Job 1:8 | stjones | 58257 | ||
EdB; Excellent points in both posts! Maybe that's just because I agree with them. ;-) Thanks. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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200 | a righteous man | Job 1:8 | stjones | 58259 | ||
Why, thanks, EdB; We've got a real mutual admiration society going here. ;-) Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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