Results 321 - 340 of 559
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Results from: Notes Author: Wild Olive Shoot Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
321 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | Wild Olive Shoot | 167377 | ||
I apologize then atdcross, because in your brevity, it seemed to me that you misrepresented God’s Word and what repentance truly is, although I’m sure that wasn’t your intent. Your post basically stated that after acknowledgment, obedience “is” repentance and that my friend, simply isn’t true. It is most assuredly part of it, but not “it”. I’m sure you are well aware of false repentance in which we have worldly sorrow that is merely a regret for the consequences of sin. 2 Corinthians 7:10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation; but the sorrow of the world produces death. As well I’m sure you are aware of Godly sorrow which leads to repentance unto life in which we understand that sin is wrong and not just because of the unfavorable results it may produce, but because we truly, in honoring God, want to be free of sin and its bondage. Romans 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Verse 25 answers this. Concerning true repentance, we understand the repulsiveness of sin as an offense against God, and the wonders of grace, which show the mercy of redemption through Christ and then endeavor after obedience. When one repents unto life there is an intellectual change, an emotional change and as well a volitional change. If obedience is repentance then there is no need for repentance once we do repent because we are obedient and you and I both know that is not the case. Repentance is to be present both in the sinner as he is brought to Christ, and in the believer confronted with his continuing sins. It is not necessarily a one time event and then we become obedient in full. WOS |
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322 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | Wild Olive Shoot | 167235 | ||
Brother Mark, If by consent you imply agreeable to or to show willingness, then yes I can feel comfortable with those terms but not necessarily pertaining to salvation, however, if the implication is one of granting permission, most assuredly no, pertaining to salvation or regeneration. I was more simply implying that we are responsive to regeneration, driven by an act of God that makes us now able to respond positively where as prior to, we were unwilling or arguably more appropriately, unable, to respond. The way in which God fully acts upon us however, I have moved away from and not tried to detail any further and would not want to now, as I don't believe Scripture has revealed in full the intricacies of that action. Consenting to salvation was not meant to be implied in general terms, rather responsiveness to regeneration and the influence thereof. WOS |
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323 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | Wild Olive Shoot | 167159 | ||
atdcross, What is it that causes one to make the reversal you mention? You make it sound as if we do this on our own. Your definition of repentance completely leaves out God's grace and mercy. Where in your definition is Godly sorrow? 2 Corinthians 7:9-11 9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter. “Humiliation and godly sorrow are previously necessary in order to repentance, and both of them are from God, the giver of all grace.” – Matthew Henry WOS |
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324 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | Wild Olive Shoot | 167095 | ||
Brother Mark, After contemplating this for some time, I must say, it seems to get more confusing the more one tries to understand. We know God is the “mechanism” behind regeneration and our response is in faith. I believe Scripture is clear on those two points. The intricacies however, though maybe important, aren’t necessary for us to identify and therefore aren’t spelled out to us in specific terms. John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Here is what I can come up with concerning the regenerate and their will at and after regeneration. This was not an exhaustive look and my points mentioned below are only to help in answering my original thoughts: (We are predestined to be called): Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, (We are regenerated by wholly an act of God with no assistance from ourselves): Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. (Because prior to regeneration we lack any moral agent enabling us to desire anything from God): Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (We receive a new nature): Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (With this new nature we are free to believe the Gospel): 1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (We receive faith, upon regeneration, a gift from God): 1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; (Faith is our response and with that faith, we freely desire God’s will): John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. I agree, I see no forceful suppression by God on the regenerate. I see a new nature given that was not previously an occupant within us. To paraphrase Hendryx, Grace makes us willing to respond. As our hearts are changed or made anew, we respond in faith. God enables our will, forgoing suppression, and acts on it in such a way that causes us to willfully yield. We are responsive in as far as we willingly turn to faith in Christ in which previously, this desire did not exist within us and therefore we were unable. A new nature is given, therefore, suppression is not necessarily a factor since our minds, wills and hearts now are fully able, and desirous of, submitting to God, in faith. “God disarms the opposition of the human heart, subduing the hostility of the carnal mind, and with irresistible power (John 6:37, 63-65), draws His chosen ones to Christ.” – John Hendryx All of that to say, I agree with what you have posted and don’t believe I could have conveyed it as accurately as you have. Thanks Mark (and Doc) for helping me to work my way through these thoughts. Matthew 19:25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. WOS |
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325 | Is Satan in heaven or on earth right now | Eph 6:12 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166756 | ||
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: WOS |
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326 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166692 | ||
Fully understand, Yes. 1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. WOS |
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327 | how many unforgiven sins are there? | Eph 1:7 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166606 | ||
There seems to be many of us lionheart, who at times attempt to rationalize Scripture and place it not so much out of context, but out of conscience. We sometimes fail to realize that what Christ deemed important to inform us and what the Holy Spirit lead the Apostles to record, was given to us for a reason and not as a filler. I find it hard to imagine that Christ Himself would demonstrate anything for us and be our example simply so we can say it isn't relevant and doesn't pertain because he never said, "this I command of you". If we would truly treasure every divinely inspired word God has given us, we would have much less rationalization and plenty more action in line with God's Spirit. Just another thought, can me confessing my sins to you or you confessing to me actually relieve us of the guilt we gain in sinning? Somewhat maybe, but surely not in full. I think it is an appropriate thing to do, confess one to another as Scripture dictates, but I also think it appropriate that the God who will pardon us is the only one that can remove the guilt as well, therefore, I'll confess to Him to be fully relieved. I’m with you on this one, if we don’t feel we need to confess and repent before God, what makes us think we will even do it before one another? Great point. WOS |
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328 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166599 | ||
Mark, “And to this you include that we are looking at the state of a believer after the process of regeneration is completed? Is that correct?” At the moment of and directly thereafter, yes. WOS |
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329 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166598 | ||
Dear Doc, Concerning submission and suppression, I didn’t intend to imply that this is necessarily something we do to ourselves or something God does do man. In the terms relevant to my inquiry, and I’m sure I didn’t lay it out quite as clear as I would have liked to, I was looking for our state of responsiveness at and after regeneration and how the moral agent plays out it’s role to our role, or rather responsibility, in acting upon our will. Probably still not clear in all respects and maybe I can’t properly convey them at this time. If I can’t the best thing may be to take a moment or two to recollect my thoughts and better present them. In any event, I’m looking at this relevant to the redeemed and I did not intend to push it into the context of obedience, at least not yet. I seem to be more interested in our state at, and immediately following, regeneration as part of the salvation process and ultimately imagine that the desire behind obedience will stem from that. WOS |
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330 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166596 | ||
Mark, For clarity, number 1 is clear to me. Number 3, I’m agreeable that it is not an option. Number 2 is slightly misrepresented from the intent of my original post. If 1 is true, 2 cannot be an option as it is stated, however, I was interested in what takes place immediately following number 1 with regard to our will but not in the act of salvation directly, but simply acting in response to that. I have more than likely phrased it somewhat ambiguously and I apologize for that. My question, and surely it has been difficult to stay on track, concerns how our will is further acted upon following regeneration as to whether or not we continue in a submissive or suppressed state, to stay with my original terms, because seemingly it is one or the other at the time of regeneration as I attempted to explain in an earlier post. What is the process behind our initial response concerning our will as compared to our subsequent responsiveness concerning our will? Does that help to place things into a more proper point of view? WOS |
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331 | how many unforgiven sins are there? | Eph 1:7 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166591 | ||
Dear Luke, Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:… Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. When Christ sets forth the pattern in which we should pray and includes specifics that we need to include, maybe not in an exact fashion, but certainly areas that we need to touch upon, what do you want to call it? A request? A recommendation? So be it, He recommended the pattern but seems to have been very specific with what we should be asking for and how. You can rationalize the Scripture with Him in time I’m sure, but He was obvious as to how we need to pray and what we are to ask, in some fashion, during. Commandment or not, we still disobey Christ when we don’t follow His instructions, or in this case as well, even His example to the best of our ability. WOS |
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332 | how many unforgiven sins are there? | Eph 1:7 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166540 | ||
Brother lionheart, I think 1 John 1:9 is agreeable in every way with the Lord’s Prayer as He instructed us to pray, Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. “Our hearts' desire and prayer to our heavenly Father every day should be, that he would forgive us our debts; that the obligation to punishment may be cancelled and vacated, that we may not come into condemnation; that we may be discharged, and have the comfort of it. In suing out the pardon of our sins, the great plea we have to rely upon is the satisfaction that was made to the justice of God for the sin of man, by the dying of the Lord Jesus our Surety, or rather Bail to the action, that undertook our discharge.” – Matthew Henry In response to Luke’s statement that we only need to confess our sins to one another and that there is no command to confess to the Lord, How is that so? Clearly, we see from Christ as well as John that confession of sin is to be offered and to the one who can truly pardon us and that does not belong to any of us. John was attempting in this letter, it seems, to be addressing some false teachings in which the reality of sin was being denied and encouragement of sin was being promoted. What better way to keep us on our toes than to have us recognize and confess that sin to God? Continual confession keeps us in fellowship with Christ. We are secure in the fact that our sins are forgiven but I think Scripture is clear that it is dangerous not to acknowledge that we still do sin. That acknowledgment is confession. We see a couple of items in confessing our sin as pointed out in 1 John 1:9. We first agree that our sin is sin and make a conscience effort to turn from it. Secondly, we ensure that we do not try to conceal our sin from God and ourselves. We continually see that we do in fact sin and must rely on God to overcome them. …“Penitent confession and acknowledgment of sin are the believer's business, and the means of his deliverance from his guilt. …” – Matthew Henry …“God is faithful to his covenant and word, wherein he has promised forgiveness to penitent believing confessors.”… – Matthew Henry …“He is clement and gracious also, and so will forgive, to the contrite confessor, all his sins, cleanse him from the guilt of all unrighteousness, and in due time deliver him from the power and practice of it.” – Matthew Henry WOS |
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333 | how many unforgiven sins are there? | Eph 1:7 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166534 | ||
Luke, Concerning your statement: “Just another thought. So why do we continue to ask GOD to forgive our sins? He already has!!!! see no commandment the New Testament requiring us to do so. I only find we are to Confess out faults one to another.” Are you familiar with the Lord’s Prayer? WOS |
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334 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166533 | ||
Dear Doc, I’m surely with you on the complexities on regeneration. Just to reassure you of my intent; I’m not desirous to the point of unraveling a mystery or positively identifying the process, just simply to better understand God’s enacting upon us and our subsequent response. I’ll do well to accept Christ for His words: John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. I think the reality of it all is that we get a new nature, a new heart. God becomes our moral agent of which we either were lacking, or were comprised of the opposite at the moment of being born again. I’m trying to understand God’s initial enacting upon us contrasted to our response. As you pointed out, “Progressive sanctification is, indeed, a work of the Holy Spirit. Nevertheless, there is a "funny" sort of tension in the Scripture here: it is also a work of our own.” What is it that makes us responsive at the onset? It’s understandable to me, that God first must impose Himself upon our will, our heart, our being, and that prior to, we are essentially void of any motives and desires to act within His will. We gain that at the moment of regeneration. Then, we face the battle of persevering with our new nature battling our old but we make the fight with assistance, because without it, we fail. There has to be an action that sets all of this in motion. I see God momentarily suppressing our will to eradicate resistance, and then once complete, letting our desires be changed by what we now have, the Holy Spirit acting upon our hearts changing our desires, thoughts and motives so we can then freely choose according to God’s will. Becoming submissive to His will while progressing forward. I think Edwards tied all of this together, the heart and the mind with his explanation of moral necessity in conjunction with a moral agent. From the heart, all motives are formed, all desires are determined and all emotions are engaged. From those our thoughts are guided from one course to another. From our thoughts, our mind’s view, we outwardly act demonstrating to all the very essence of our hearts. I believe they all branch together in some manner and therefore have a common root. That common root is the heart and the moral agent acting upon it, God. I don’t see you side-stepping the question. It’s hard to grab hold of and place into a proper perspective. I see myself swaying from thought to thought simply because I am trying to articulate my thoughts into type and the more I ponder this, the harder I find it to explain. Also for my own benefit, I’ll refrain from conversing on topics off the subject on this particular thread, since this does in fact lead to many other aspects, if only for right now, until I can feel my way through comfortably enough to understand fully how I should be seeing it. I hope you and Mark understand and grant me that small concession. But in no respect do I wish to imply for you to not share your thoughts with me or anything of that nature, just don’t be expecting a quick reply as I consider what you express. I think what seems to be the hardest for me right now, is attaching these thoughts with scripture and doing so correctly to see if they work out. Until I can accomplish that, I think I’m debating with myself more than anything. Isn’t that the norm. Bear with me friend. Thanks Brother, WOS |
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335 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166532 | ||
Dear Mark, First of all, my comment on rambling was only in jest and I hope you recognized it as such. I’m glad you have invited me along for the ride as you work out your beliefs on the subject. I find it odd, that I see so many similarities initially concerning our thought processes, but somehow we have reached slightly different conclusions. Where you, if having to choose, lean toward suppression, I would lean toward submissiveness. Just for the sake of clarification, let me state that the terms I applied as originally presented were not intended to push the subject into a psychiatric spin. It was merely my attempt and maybe a poor one, to identify as appropriately as I could, what actually takes place when regeneration is enacted upon us and subsequently our response and progression. As you aptly concluded, God’s will can never be suppressed nor can it be submissive to man’s will. But concerning the regenerate, that appears not even to be an option. Ultimately our will is either suppressed by or submissive to God’s. Once predestined by God, the choice is no longer ours is it? His will progresses while ours, in logically deducing, has to react in some fashion accordingly. We can’t reject, that places us above God’s sovereignty to say that He called us but we choose not come. We can’t accept initially, because up to that point just prior to regeneration, the agent acting upon our will is in fact immoral or we are void of a moral agent. So I see two options remaining, be suppressed by or submissive to the will of God. I see the manner of regeneration happening in an instant and arguably unnoticed at the onset. I see our wills being suppressed by God for an instant to allow our hearts to be renewed, because I don’t believe we would let it happen, given an option. From that moment forward, I see our wills as being submissive to God’s because His Spirit is now the acting moral agent on our heart. Our hearts are acted upon by the only moral agent capable of directing our hearts to effect changes in our desires and motives to coincide with those of God. These new motives direct our thoughts, our minds and lead us into a progression toward Christ. We are now freely able to choose that which God desires while retaining what bit of our old nature that we do. As both you and Doc have stated, our hearts are central, our very essence. From our inner being, one would have to surmise our outer actions are predicated. A heart void of God, or unchanged by God cannot produce moral thoughts and ultimately actions in tune with God’s will and desire. I’ll go as far as to say that it seems to be against our very nature to even freely acknowledge and accept a Savior until God makes it so. So I tend to agree with you concerning suppression, but only at the onset. We then freely submit to God’s will which also enables us to suppress our old nature but not entirely. I did not want to imply in any way that God’s will, or God’s Spirit indwelling the regenerate, could be suppressed by or even submissive to our nature or will. God forbid it and I praise Him that the enacting of His will and our submitting to it is truly a one-way street. It’s a gift of His grace and mercy upon us. In all, I can properly concede to the fact that this is a mystery in which God has not revealed to us for His own reason. However, I feel I have a responsibility to fully explore the Word of God and let His Word inform of that. Until I reach a point of being stagnant on a subject, I feel I need to continue. Currently, concerning this subject, I still feel I’m progressing somewhat to a better understanding. Also please understand, when I originally presented this subject, it was only to further explore it for my own understanding. It is surely not a hang up with me. Thank you Mark for sharing and please continue to do so. WOS |
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336 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166416 | ||
I appreciate the comment that God is training our will as it seems to correlate with progressive sanctification that you and Doc have pointed out. The question as to our submissive or suppressed will is from an attempt to understand better how both our human will and God’s divine will factor into the salvation process and to what extent they are allowed to coexist. Our salvation rests unreservedly with God. But we have a responsibility, which is to acknowledge it. Can we acknowledge God’s grace, His mercy, while acting on our own will, within our human nature? Like you pointed out, with your reference to Eph 4:24, we are told to put on the new self, and Eph 4:30,31 points out we are instructed not to grieve the Spirit and to put away those things that would. It seems we have a responsibility to God after He calls us to be His. So the old and new cohabitate, both natures with their own wills, and it doesn’t seem that both act in unison but the opposite. Depending on our desires, motives, one will does poke through at any given time, dictating our actions so that one must either be suppressed or submissive to the other. For our will to be suppressed is indicative that it is against our will to act in a Godly fashion. To be submissive to God’s will, yielding to it, stays with the concept of retaining a free will by freely letting the Spirit work us. (To be clear, I am speaking of the regenerate and not the reprobate when discussing this) Spurgeon wrote: “We are not saved against our will; nor again, mark you, is the will taken away; for God does not come and convert the intelligent free-agent into a machine. When he turns the slave into a child, it is not by plucking out of him the will which he possesses. We are as free under grace as ever we were under sin; nay, we were slaves when we were under sin, and when the Son makes us free we are free indeed, and we are never free before.” … “But we do hold and teach that though the will of man is not ignored, and men are not saved against their wills, that the work of the Spirit, which is the effect of the will of God, is to change the human will, and so make men willing in the day of God's power, working in them to will to do of his own good pleasure.” I spoke of Christ while praying in Gethsemane for a few reasons. We get a real picture of Christ’s human nature, and what it may have desired. His divine nature and will eagerly wanted His work to be carried out, and that meant going to the cross, but humanly, His desire was to have the cup pass from Him, so strong a desire that it took nothing less than an angel from Heaven to comfort Him. I believe Scripture is clear, in that Christ was tempted in everyway that we are and I agree with your comment, that they were likely stronger than what we could imagine. But Christ did not have a sinful nature. Being divine in nature, He never needed a calling and to be responsive to it since He was in His very person God. When He stated that God’s will be done and not His own, it was from His human perspective that he stated those words but nonetheless, from an uncorrupted nature. Jonathan Edwards wrote: “Nothing can induce or invite the mind to will or act any thing, any further than it is perceived, or is some way or other in the mind’s view; for what is wholly unperceived and perfectly out of the mind’s view, cannot affect the mind at all. It is most evident, that nothing is in the mind, or reaches it, or takes any hold of it, any otherwise than as it is perceived or thought of.” Being unfallen, uncorrupt and sinless, and God by nature, Christ did not perceive and ultimately act upon a sinful mind’s view, or maybe more aptly put, sinning and moving against God’s will wasn’t an option on many levels. We in contrast, have that old corrupted, vile, despicable nature to continually deal with until Glory comes. God calls us to be His and then makes it so. He makes us new, changing our hearts, our desire so that our will submits to His. Maybe our yielding to God’s will, the Spirit actually does suppress our old nature, but it is our submissiveness that is the catalyst. In that I can see your point that we are in essence, the switchman, throwing it from spirit to flesh or I think what my mind has formed an opinion of is not necessarily an on / off switch, but a “dimming” switch. Once God claims us as his, I don’t think He will let us fully flip it off, but we can dim it somewhat as God ultimately controls our destiny. I thank you for your input. I hope I was able to verbalize my opinion in a somewhat comprehensive manner. Sometimes it’s hard to get the thoughts straight in my own mind, let alone trying to convey them to another, without mixing them up and inadvertently leading to them being misconstrued by others. I was hoping maybe that rambling thing wasn’t contagious but it just might be. Sometimes being succinct just isn’t a viable option. Thank you Brother. WOS |
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337 | what if you die and have not repented | Eph 1:7 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166387 | ||
The unrepentant will only be those whom God has not called. Romans 9:16 "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy." …” which is clearly meant that the reason why any man is saved is not because he wills it, but because God willed, accord to that other passage, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." The whole scheme of salvation, we aver, from the first to the last, hinges and turns, and is dependent upon the absolute will of God, and not upon the will of the creature.” – C. H. Spurgeon http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0442.htm Don’t misunderstand what “Free Will” actually is. Through faith in Christ, you can freely choose to act in harmony with God’s will, enabled by God’s Holy Spirit to do so. If God does not call you, you are free to act against His will. Your free will depends on the sovereign God, as does your salvation and not on whether or not you will it so. WOS |
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338 | how many unforgiven sins are there? | Eph 1:7 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166323 | ||
Propitiation: Reconciliation to God or what makes one acceptable to God. Justification: As regards its nature, it is the judicial act of God, by which he pardons all the sins of those who believe in Christ, and accounts, accepts, and treats them as righteous in the eye of the law, i.e., as conformed to all its demands. There are as many and more sins not forgiven as there are those who do not have faith in Christ. Faith in Christ makes us acceptable to God and we are justified through that faith. Without Christ or faith in Him and what He accomplished, there isn’t any forgiveness, only judgment. WOS |
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339 | Ephs 4:30; 1:13-14 | 2 Tim 1:12 | Wild Olive Shoot | 165866 | ||
Doc, My thanks for the information and links. I will surely visit those, but prior to, I wanted to express my thoughts and who knows, maybe after further study, I’ll gain an even better understanding. My thoughts are that once a regenerate is confirmed to be, by God’s workings, the will, which is still totally free to choose based on ones own thoughts and rationale, becomes a submissive will to God, and therefore desires God’s will for himself and acts upon that accordingly. I see many “free-willers” (which I am one) misunderstand just what free will is as Biblically defined. The misrepresentation is that once a person is indwelt by the Spirit of God, and sealed as God’s, that for one reason or another, should they so choose, they can reject God’s grace because of their free will and God’s honoring of that will which allows them to do so. This almost seems to negate any effect the Holy Spirit has on the person and insinuates that we can arrogantly overrule God’s calling and election and sealing. Almost to the point that the Holy Spirit is nothing more than ineffective and unable to keep us as promised. I find it hard to understand how one can claim to be saved and then directly say that he can loose that salvation should he choose to. In my opinion, one who is saved would not have the option of then choosing to be unsaved, because as God’s Word informs us, salvation, once graciously given onto a child of God, is forever, and our will, though free, is acting largely in part on other principles instituted by the Spirit and not so much on principles held in our hopeless, unregenerate state, although I think they coexist to an extent until glorification. Wouldn’t rejection be a frontal process and not an intermediate or later process? That once there was acceptance of God’s grace, and only as our response according to His calling, rejection would cease to be a factor. Your post from Perman “…we always choose according to our greatest desire…” had me thinking on the lines as to what drives our thought processes and determines just what we actually desire based on those. I was simply looking for more thoughts on the subject as I find this particular one to be most intriguing. Thank again for yours Brother. WOS |
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340 | Ephs 4:30; 1:13-14 | 2 Tim 1:12 | Wild Olive Shoot | 165821 | ||
Thanks Doc. Am I correct in thinking that Romans 12:2 is applicable as well Romans 8:1-15? Your thoughts? Romans 12:2(ASV) And be not fashioned according to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, and ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God. "Your mind - The word translated “mind” properly denotes intellect, as distinguished from the will and affections. But here it seems to be used as applicable to the whole spirit as distinguished from the body, including the understanding, will, and affections. As if he had said, Let not this change appertain to the body only, but to the soul. Let it not be a mere external conformity, but let it have its seat in the spirit. All external changes, if the mind was not changed, would be useless, or would be hypocrisy. Christianity seeks to reign in the soul; and having its seat there, the external conduct and habits will be regulated accordingly." - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible WOS |
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