Results 601 - 620 of 657
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: stjones Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
601 | Infallibility of the Bible questioned. | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 32179 | ||
Hi, Hank; Thanks for your words of wisdom. I agree. I suspect we'll all be like Job who, upon encountering God in person, suddenly lost interest in whatever it was he was talking about. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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602 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 32993 | ||
Hi, Makarios; It's not gender-inclusive. Gender inclusive would make God our Parent, not our Father, Jesus his Child, not his Son. That's the feminist objective. That was the NIVI The TNIV seeks (not necessarily successfully) to overcome the English langueage's lack of a neuter gender. What did Jesus mean when he said "For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."? (Luke 10:11) He said "everyone"; did he mean everyone? Did he mean that women can receive when they ask but may not find when they seek and may not have the door opened when they knock? Did he give men a better, more comprehensive promise? If he did then he acted completely out of character and Paul lied when he wrote "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28) I hope nobody on this forum really thinks 2 Timothy 3:17 refers only to preparing men: "so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." Or that I have to forgive my brother seventy seven times (Matthew 18:21-22) but I can blow off my sister with impunity. The Bible wasn't written in English; every translation is a compromise. I can't see demonizing Zondervan for trying to overcome a well-known shortcoming of the target language. After all, they publish our host's NASB too. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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603 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 32994 | ||
Hi, Hank; Most publishers make a profit; that's how they stay in business. For example, this is from our host's Foundation Publications home page: "NEW PUBLISHING PARTNERSHIP MEANS MORE EDITIONS AND MORE ADVERTISING THAN EVER BEFORE. In order to boost consumer preference for the Updated NASB, the Lockman Foundation has announced a three–way publishing partnership between Foundation Publications, World Bible Publishers, and Zondervan Publishing. Already the list of available text, reference, study and specialty editions has tripled." Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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604 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33005 | ||
ROFL! You're a better man than I, Hank. |
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605 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33058 | ||
Hi, Makarios; Have you read either the NIVI or TNIV? Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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606 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33062 | ||
Hi, Hank; I agree with most of what you say. Translating "as accurately as possible", however, is always a judgment call. If you've ever studied a foreign language, you know that word-for-word translation doesn't work. Sometimes there's no corresponding word; sometimes the author wrote idiomatically. Even if there's only one text to work from, intent, meaning, and context will always enter into the process. Add multiple texts and the problem grows. My points are these: (1) The TNIV is not the NIVI. (2) the editors and translators are not known to be agents of Satan - Zonderrvan does have a history of serving the Christian community. (3) It's easy to make up motives for other people - common courtesy and Christian charity demand that we carefully consider their own explanations before we manufacture our own. (4) Since transaltion is a matter of judgment, it's premature and short-sided to excoriate Zondervan if they have made an error in judgment. (5) I wouldn't consider anyone who has not personally read the TNIV qualified to comment on it. I believe the Bible calls for witnesses not second-hand witnesses and hearsay. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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607 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33066 | ||
Hi, Hank (and all the Zondervan-haters); If God is still the Father, the TNIV is not a gender-neutral Bible. "Father" is gender-specific. If we're going to try to destroy a company that has decades of useful service to Christians behind it, we should at least be able to identify its crimes. Shop-lifting is a lesser crime than armed robbery. Likewise, trying to address short-comings of the English language is a lesser crime than pandering to feminist cries for political correctness. It amazes me that folks who insist on a literal reading of other parts of the Bible don't hesitate to tell me that when Jesus said "he" or "him", he didn't really mean it and "anyone can tell the difference". Ooops, I forgot, Jesus wasn't speaking English; "he" and "his" were a translator's choice of a translator's choice. Until a sizeable number of evangelicals actually read the TNIV, ponder it, discuss it, and pray about it, this is a tempest in a teapot. And an awfully uncharitable one at that - judgmental and probably uninformed as well. The TNIV NT is a free download at http://www.tniv.info/bible/index.php How many Zondervan-haters have actually read it? Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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608 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33067 | ||
Hank; I suspect that Wak was making the point that the IBS (which I believe is not-for-profit) has earned a measure of trust after almost 200 years. You have to throw out an awfully big baby with the TNIV bathwater. This is the same old "appeal to authority (other than Scripture)" argument that we see so often on this forum. The TNIV isn't all that important to me. But if it were, I would read it to see what I could glean from it. I don't plan to start letting "experts" do my thinking for me. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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609 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33068 | ||
Hello, Joe! A quick search of the TNIV shows that God retains his title Father, so this is something of a non sequitur. Don't be misled by the oft-cited article on baptistpress.com. When the headline refers to the TNIV as a "revision" not a "translation", their position is pretty clear. Despite their claims, the TNIV is not gender-neutral - as the above example shows. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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610 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33093 | ||
Greetings, Hank; I didn't mean to indulge in name-calling. I thought I was accurately describing the feelings of those responsible for the speculation, half-truths, retroactive condemnation of the NIV, and general demonizing of Zondervan. After all, their motives, their honesty, and their scholarship have all been attacked, along with an old and honored bible society that has distributed God's World throughout the world for nearly 200 years. Sounded pretty hateful to me. But if you and others don't hate them, please accept my apologies. Any comments on the substance of my message? Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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611 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33102 | ||
Hi, Makarios; Thanks for the excellent information. I think in the larger culture, the two terms are different. Gender-inclusive language seeks to eliminate the implied exclusion of women arising from the standard use of masculine gender when no gender is intended. (After all, why not use feminine gender in such cases? Male domination, of course!) This shortcoming of English is addressed by such silliness as "s/he", "chairperson", and the TNIV's use of "they" to refer to a singel person of unspecified/irrelevant gender. Gender-neutral language, on the other hand, seeks to eliminate all references to gender and thus erase all distinctions between men and women. This is the disease infesting seminaries as described in your first link ("The Gender-Neutral Language Controversy"). God and Jesus lose their gender altogether and we end up with such neologisms as God Godself (rather than "God himself" - an example in the aforementioned article). To me, gender-neutral is a much more dangerous concept. Gender-inclusiveness doesn't have much theological significance because it addreses the characteristics a perticular language. The use of gender-neutral language, however, is an assault on the nature of God. This is a heresy that transcends languages. But it's a heresy that I don't think the TNIV is necessarily guilty of. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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612 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33103 | ||
Makarios; point taken. I apologize. Peace and grace Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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613 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33104 | ||
Hello, Makarios; I honestly have no interest in the NIVI; I'm perfectly willing to accept that it is the abomination folks think it is. I did download and read parts of the TNIV NT. I also visited some of the sites that are critical of it. You may have noticed that I have reserved judgment on the TNIV (other than pointing out that it disappoints the feminists by letting God pick his own gender). When it becomes available in print, I will probably buy the NT. (The more than 300 pages in the download would be the death of my old laser printer.) I will read it and think about it and decide for myself. I do think Zondervan and the IBS deserve a thoughtful evaluation of the entire product. They certainly have earned that - not the hysteria, attacks on the integrity of the translators and editors, and appeal to authority arguments that have characterized this thread. And it won't bother me at all to hand over 15 or 20 dollars to the Evil Empire (Zondervan/HarperCollins). ;-) Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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614 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33106 | ||
Hi, Makarios; Well, I had to ask. ;-) I've read enough of the TNIV to not get too excited about it, not enough to render a thoughtful judgment on its merits. I haven't read the NIVI and have no interest in defending (or excusing) it. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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615 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33132 | ||
Hello, Makarios; I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the meaning and relative importance of those terms. But while we're excoriating bible publishers, I assume we should add Tyndale to the list of money-grubbing, world-loving publishers who have sold out to the feminists. The NLT is also gender-inclusive. See, for example, Matthew 7:8-9: "For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And the door is opened to everyone who knocks. You parents - if your children ask for a loaf of bread, do you give them a stone instead?" Not a "he", "him", or "son" in sight. And don't try to excuse their perfidy by saying it's a paraphrase. It says it's a translation. So they too have played fast and loose with God's Word. The same can be said of the Good News (TEV) too. That just leaves our hosts' publishing arm, Foundation Publications. Ooops, no; they're in bed with Zondervan to publish the NASB. Guess we'd all better start learning Aramaic. ;-) Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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616 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33188 | ||
Hi, Makarios; After re-reading my message, I find no insult to anybody and precious little sarcasm. The NLT (Tyndale) and TEV (ABS) do contain language similar to the TNIV and so should be similarly reviled. And, yes, I have been following this thread; I have found little more than sarcasm and insults in most of the responses to the publication of the TNIV. I have been observing a truly shameful attack on the motives, honesty, scholarship, and integrity of two institutions that have done a great deal of service over the years by publishing and distributing bibles and other materials throughout the world. I'm no expert on Zondervan, but I do know that in addition to the very well-respected NIV, they publish other versions and ancillary materials as well. I know they have given voice to some of the greatest contemporary Christian writers around. I know of at least one evangelical Christian university (Taylor) whose library was built in large part with a gift from Zondervan. I'm not even going to waste my time defending the International Bible Society and its work. It's one thing to oppose, protest, dislike, or boycott the TNIV. If he agreed that it distorts his word, I am sure Jesus would do the same. But Zondervan and the IBS are made up of people, many of whom I am sure love God and his Word as much as anybody on this forum. It's hard for me to imagine that Jesus would join in this forum's vicious, hateful (yes, hateful), attack on organizations and people that have served him and his church so well over so many years. And I'd guess that if he approved of the NIV 20 years ago, he wouldn't now burn it, throw it away, or hide it from his sight. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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617 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 33205 | ||
Hi, Makarios; No crusade, just hope for a little more grace shown to people and institutions who have in the past served faithfully and will undoubtedly continue to do so in the future. I think I'll go out and buy another NIV. ;-) Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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618 | holy spirit guide men to write bible | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 80646 | ||
... from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. -- 2 Timothy 3:15-17 I don't recall if the Holy Spirit is explicitly named in another passage. Given the nature and work of the Holy Spirit, it certainly reasonable to assume that it was the Holy Spirit who did the "breathing" (inspiring). Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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619 | holy spirit guide men to write bible | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 80672 | ||
Hi, Ray; Interesting question - one that causes me to wax philosophical, so be warned! I don't know how your thought works in Hebrew or Greek, but I think the idea is intriguing. Maybe it comes down to what it actually means to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit remains a separate entity who speaks to my mind and spirit, then I think it would be more accurate to say that the Holy Spirit does the breathing/inspiring. But if the Holy Spirit infuses my entire being and speaks directly through my words, then it would be more accurate to say, as you suggest, that the Holy Spirit is the breath/inspiration. I sort of incline toward the separate entity just because it seems it would be easier for my sinful nature to ignore him as it too often does. This may be more consistent with the struggle Paul describes in Romans 7:7-25. I know that the Holy Spirit has affected my words - when suddenly called upon to pray in public, for example, or when (against all odds) I say exactly the right thing in a difficult situation, or when (lay) preaching without notes. I say "affected" because I can't describe the process that caused the words and ideas to come out of my mouth. I can't say that I "heard a voice", but the mind is a mysterious thing. The Spirit could speak to my subconscious mind and cause his message to come out in my words. Does the Spirit relay words through our minds or assume control of our mouths or pens and deliver his message directly? Speaking in tongues might be an example of the Spirit assuming direct control, but, again, I don't really know. I think the truth is that both explanations are kind of right and kind of wrong. The older I get the more convinced I am that human language can't capture the complete picture of anything to do with God. One of my favorite passages is 1 Corinthians 2:6-16. It doesn't really answer the question but expresses a truth that is bigger than the question. Thanks for getting me started this morning thinking about "the deep things of God" instead of the war or paying bills. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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620 | holy spirit guide men to write bible | 2 Tim 3:16 | stjones | 80744 | ||
Hi, Ray; You're right; I missed it. Now that I see what you meant; it's a good thought. I think Paul makes a similar distinction in 1 Corinthians 2:11 - "For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." - spirit and Spirit, Spirit speaking to spirit. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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