Results 21 - 40 of 57
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: nivlac5 Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92273 | ||
did you read my last post? the first sentence says one must repent turn from their sin, and accept Christ as saviour,His death, buriel,ressurection We are seen as perfect not for our obedience but because of Christ finished work on the cross laid to our account. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, Phil 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, When Christ said it is finished he used the greek word "tetelesti" and what does that mean, its literal translation is paid in full. Upon faith our sin debt has been cacelled forever.Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. That is saving grace and the good news of the Gospel! Anything that puts one back in bondage to works is of the devil. Are you trusting in your obedience and works for your salvation? I sure hope not. "All our rithteoussness is like filthy rags" Isaiah 64:6. Rom 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, Rom 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: Rom 4:7 "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. Rom 4:8 "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT." Rom 4:9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." Rom 4:10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; YES, one is justified by faith alone apart from works, but works will follow and are not meritorious. Was not Abraham justified by faith before the law? See Gen 15. I find it travesty that so many believe that their works of goodnes will justify them before God. This is what cults do,simply to put the yoke of bondage on their devotees and mind control them and lure money and other things from them. This is another gospel and brings upon God's wrath. Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; Gal 1:7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! May we be found in His righteousness and not the menstrual rags of our own self-righteouness. In His service, Brad |
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22 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92341 | ||
Emmaus, Just to clear up what scripture clearly says about baptism. You will recall that in Acts, many Gentiles are coming to faith. Please read these passages carefuly. You will see that these people already possesed the Holy Spirit and were washed with the blood of Christ, PRIOR to their water baptism. Water Baptism, as many believe, does not save. It is an act of obedience after salvation. These people in Acts were already saved. They had been washed, as in Titus, with the "water" of the Holy Spirit that Christ did on their behalf, hence regeneration and hence realized in time by faith/belief. Since they are truly His,they will obey His commands, but are not saved by them. Acts 10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" Acts 10:48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. Acts 11:16 "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' Acts 11:17 "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?" |
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23 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92354 | ||
Emmaus, I admit I am interpreting the scriptures in light of my theology and training. Like the Bereans in scripture, scripture and the Holy Spirit are my guide to my theology. Now, if you are honest, you too are iterpreting scripture in light of your theology, which comes from the Catholic Catechism as well as your training therein. Certainly I respect your point of view and was just making the point from Acts 10,11, Eph 2, Romans 4-5, and Titus and Galatians, just name a few, that regeneration and justification and salvation is a work of God alone and not merited by our works,whether, baptism, communion,pennance etc. That's all. It is interesting discussion and one that some friends of mine are having with a member of the LDS church. They of course have their requirements for complete forgiveness and salvation, which is mandated by their church. Nevertheless, this discussion has been around for centuries and I think it is healthy to search the scriptures and let the word of God dot its work in our hearts. May He give us eyes to see and ears to hear, so that we might delight in His truth. In peace, Brad | ||||||
24 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92357 | ||
Emmaus, I agree with you, the LDS view of Baptism is different. I also affirm that you and I share much more in common theologicaly than LDS. Actually, I don't share much of anything with LDS. But with the issue of soteriology I am disagreement with both groups. I must say that when you mentioned that before the Reformation there was agreement. I would definately beg to differ. Why do you think the creeds were written? Which I agree with, by the way. They were written to combat heresy, such as Pelagian heresy(dealing with soteriology), others include the Arian heresy, Sabellian heresy as well others. All occurring prior to the Reformation. The Reformation was needed, because, at that point in time the Church had fallen away from the central tenants of Holy scripture and irrefutably became corrupt. Way more could be said, but nevertheless, these controversies span well before the Reformation. Christians must continualy appeal the authority of scripture and be careful not to let tradition trump the word of God. In Christ, Brad |
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25 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92659 | ||
certainly I agree! The baptism of the Holy Spirit upon faith. The very one John the Baptist said would come with Christ(Acts 10-11)Not of water, but of spirit, the same Spirit that quickens a man who is dead in Sin.(Eph 2). Emmaus, thanks for the dialogue, it has been edifying and enriching. To God be the Glory, Brad | ||||||
26 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92759 | ||
Joe,I am not sure if your were addressing me. But, to briefly answer your question I will say, that I do not believe one has to be immersed to be saved and the church I go to does not subscribe to this. In short, baptism is an outward sign of saving faith and therefore I assume you would not hold to the erroneous belief of baptismal regeneration. Unfortunately, many denom. do and so do many orders of the Catholic church. I have no bickerings with pedobaptist, I do not hold to it, but I think it is an in house debate. I am not 100 percent certain where you fall soteriologicaly, but if you are a 5 point Reformed, you would subscribe to regeneration precedes faith. The above church fathers you mentioned, I have great esteem for them and enjoy their writings and no I don't think that they are going to hell. Now, grant you, there may be some Baptist denom. that believe this, but I have no affiliation with them. Reformed Baptist, are somewhat of outcast in the mainline Baptist Denom. Anyways, it is not about a denomination, but about Christ and the Holy Word. Your brother in Christ, Brad | ||||||
27 | What about those who have never heard of | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 98282 | ||
Dachande, thanks for your reply. An often asked question by man is his protest, what about those who have never heard the gospel? Your premise is that God owes everyone a chance to hear it and that there are "good" people out there. Well, I would agree there are "good" people. But good relative to what? Man's standard? or God's? A fundamental error in theology is a misunderstanding of man an his nature and the holiness of God. Please read Romans 1,2 and you will see there is none righteous and none who seek after God.The bible makes it clear, man's heart is desperately wicked and is by nature at emnity toward God(Romans 8) Please read Eph. 1,2 anlong with John 6 and Romans 8-9. You will see that only those whom God chooses to show mercy are saved. Who are you to say to God whom He should show mercy. Shall the clay say to the potter why have you made me this way? Please read your entire bible(and no other uninspired sources)before you fall into the trap that works save you(such as baptism). | ||||||
28 | So who tempted satan? | Is 45:7 | nivlac5 | 88720 | ||
I believe that the issue of God creating evil is a mystery. He certainly alows evil, and then turns it for His Glory. The bible seems to be silent on this and where it is silent we should be too. Deut 29:29 "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law. Is 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD In Christ Brad |
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29 | Corporate version of Matthew 5-8? | Matt 5:20 | nivlac5 | 88818 | ||
Sarchie, You asked how the sermon on the mount applies to the corporate world. I assume you mean the world as a whole(humanity) rather than the business world. Either way, the purpose of the sermon is to point to us our need for Christ. Christ has taken the outward sinful action and addressed the inward attitude of the heart. By this standard, we are all guilty before God. The law has the same purpose. It is a mirror that reflects our depravity before a Holy God and by God's grace will drive us to the cross. Can anyone actualy claim perfection? None who are honest with themselves and with God. That is why we need the imputed righteoussness of Christ Phil 3. Note that in the sermon Jesus says in verse 20, "unless your righteoussness exceeds the righteousness of the pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of God" Now the pharisees were "righteous" folks, they bragged about keeping the law and keeping laws they had made themselves and yet Jesus rebukes them for self righteousnees. As it says in Isaiah 64:6 " our righteousness is like filthy rags" Now once we have been born again, via our new nature, we should emulate the sermon on the mount in thought word and deed. So it applies in the sense that it draws those who will be saved and sets a code of behavior for those who have been born again. I hope this helps, maybe I missed the point of your question. In Christ, Brad | ||||||
30 | Are our motives right? | Matt 6:2 | nivlac5 | 88989 | ||
Tim, well said, if the motive is not for the Glory of God, it is useless. Of course God is glorified when we defend His truth in love. Controversy for the sake of controversy is sin, controversy for the sake of truth is a divine comand. In Christ, Brad | ||||||
31 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | nivlac5 | 88378 | ||
Greetings, New Creature. It seems to me that the issue of eternal security is clearly taught in scripture and also depends on whether you have man center view of salvation or a God centered one. After all what God starts He finishes, such as in salvation. Phil 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. And who is the author or our faith? Hebrews 12:1,2 make it clear who that is, God Himself. Now certainly an earthly author may start a book and not finish it. It is a common occurrence. But what about he Sovereign, Omnipotent, Omniscient, God of the bible. Does He work a work and not complete it, especially since ther Holy Writ says He will coplete it? So in brief, nothing is able to seperate us from the salvation we have in Christ. For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. John 10:28,29 |
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32 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | nivlac5 | 88875 | ||
Hi New creature! You were asking about solid scriptural support for eternal security. You need not look any further than the character of God and His faithfulness to His own. After all, who is the author your faith? Who begins and starts it? Hebrews 12:1,2 make it clear Who the author is,it is Christ, the incarnate God. And what does Phil 1:6 Says, "He(Christ) who began a good work in you will finish it until His return". We can also turn to Romans 8 and see that nothing can seperate us from God's love, and yes this passage is dealing with salvation, contrary to other post seen in the forum. From Romans 1-8, Paul is building the case for justication by faith alone, in Christ alone, by Grace alone. You either believe the promises of God or you dont. It may be that encouragement is needed or that the new birth has never been experienced that results in this unbelief. The problem with eternal insecurity is that it has a low view of God, and in a sense is calling God a liar. And consequently it has a high view of man. Such is the condition of the fall, man thinks to highly of himself and wants autonomy over God. It was the problem in the garden and is the problem today. Scripture has to be interpreted in light of scripture and in its immediate and greater context. The passages often quoted to justify eternal insecurity are out of context and or have nothing to do with salvation per say. Heb 6 is often quoted. A careful study of that passage will reveal that Paul is presenting a hypothedical. If it were possible to loose your salvation,(which it isn't) then in would be impossible to renew yourself again unto repentance because you could never save yourself in the first place. And if you continue reading, you will see that Paul "is confident of better things"that this could never happen to those that are God's children.Why? because God's gifts and calling are irrevocable Romnans 11:29. In addition Eph 2:8-10 make it clear that faith is a gift given and credited by Him. It is also clear that if you can lose your salvation then knowingly or unknowlingly you believe in a works based salvation. See Eph 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 and all of Romans. There is absolutely nothing that you can offer or give to God for your salvation nor is there anything you can do to lose it. He is the author and center of our redemption and He will lose none. As for those in Luke, they were never saved in the first place. Millions, give lip service to belief in God or Christ, but do they believe God/Christ. There is a huge difference! Again, you either believe God and His promises or you dont. Matt 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' May God's Grace be clearly seen as it is revealed in the Holy Writ. In Christ, Brad |
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33 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | nivlac5 | 88909 | ||
Well said radioman2! Major kudos! Brad | ||||||
34 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | nivlac5 | 88922 | ||
Andrew, I feel your torment. All of us experience times where are faith is challenged and we question what we believe. Im not sure what exact issue you are struggling with, it sounds like the salvation issue. You can be assured that if know that you are a sinner and have repented and placed your trust in Christ alone,His death buriel and resurrection, you are saved. Settled! To grow you must be in God's word and be lifted up with prayer and support from other christians. Books that have helped me defend the faith are The Case for Christ, by Lee Srobel and The Case for Faith, by Lee Strobel. More Than A Carpenter by Josh McDowell. Other works include If there is a God why are there Atheist? by RC Sproul. Anything by Sproul is good. Well, I am sure I can speak for all the christians on the forum, that we love you as a brother and want to encourage you stay focused of Him and His word. For more encourgament you can email me at bradfr01@hotmail.com Jude 1:24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, 2 Tim 1:12 For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day. |
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35 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | nivlac5 | 88930 | ||
New Creature, You seem to be cutting and pasting scripture and adhearing to some neo-gnostic thought with your interpretations. Do you believe and trust the promises of God? By God's grace I pray that you do. With the doctrine of eternal insecurity we are only left to stand in front of God with the robes of our own self righteousness Is 64:6. I prefer to trust God's word and stand before God with the robes of Christ righteousness. The scriptures such as Heb and John 15 say nothing about the individuals being make alive or regenerated,they had a said faith rather than a real living faith. It seems that the crux of this issue is a misuderstanding on what it is that saves people, certainly if it were up to men to save themselves and maintain it, we would lose it.Again I ask, who is the Author of our faith? Heb 12,Phil 3:8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, Phil 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith. In Love,Brad |
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36 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | nivlac5 | 88984 | ||
New Creaure, The biblical support is abundant. We have shown you the passages and revealed the truth and the character of God. It will be the Holy spirit that will change your heart on the issue. But since faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, lets, again deal with some of the passages,that I clearly believe and will show that you are clearly violating basic hermeneutical principles. First, lets deal with the verse that goes straight to the core of Gods's power to keep those who He has redeemed John 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. John 10:26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; John 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. John 10:29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. Lets deal with verse 29. The proponents of eternal insecurity often say that NO ONE does not mean anyone. They of course read in to the scripture and say that it could be the person themselves that could take from God's hand. So I ask, why does the passage not say "no one can snatch them out My hands,except yourself" No one, means just that, no person. Here,the eternal insecurity folks are quilty of eisegesis. Reading in to the text something that is not there.They are also changing the meaning of a word, a common mistake/intent to make something say what it does not. Of course they also are ignoring the greater context of scripture, which I have already pointed out before, but you seem to ignore this. Lets now revisit John 15:6. John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned Notice that it says if anyone does not abide in Me, not if anyone does abide and then not abide at the same time and in the same relationship. This is a descriptive passage, simply saying, if you are not in Christ or abiding in Him, you will not bear fruit. Why? because you are not His in the first place, you do not have the Son.1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. Now some in the eternal security camp will see this passage as a believer being pruned and being made fit for the masters use, much like those in Ezekiel 15:1-8. Now I dont hold this view, but it still makes more sense than the eternal insecurity camp,simply because of the greater context of scripture and again the character of God. It might be good for those who hold the eternal insecurity to do an exaustive study on the nature and character of God, this will shed light on this topic. Lets now turn again to Romans 8 and view it in light of its immediate context.Rom 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" Paul is making it clear their is no condemnation for those who are in Christ and by adoption, which is irrevocable, we have been liberated from the bondage of sin. How miserable it must be if you believe you can lose your adoption and then be in bondage again. Now if we go further into Romans 8, we see Who is the one who calls? justifies? sanctifies?glorifies? For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; Rom 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. Why! it is God Himself. Will you accuse God of losing anything? So again, salvation is in view and the rest of the chapter goes on to say that nothing can seperate us fron this chain of love and redemption. I know you dont believe this, but I ask that you be honest with the context of scripture. We will also see that in Hebrews 13 and specificaly verse 5,Heb 13:5 Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, "I WILL NEVER DESERT YOU, NOR WILL I EVER FORSAKE YOU," So I ask, are you a new creature today or an old one? And if you have lost what you had, how do you suppose you will get it back? And how will you know you wont lose it again? Do you supply some virtue, some goodnes, some work that will re-justify you before a Holy and Righteouss God? You are forced to belive in works salvation and if that is the case, then no one would be saved. Romans 4, Titus 3:5, Eph 2:8-9. The biblical case is compelling and overwhelming that God saves and who He saves is secure for eternity in His hands. Here I stand, I can do nothing else. By His Grace, brad |
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37 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | nivlac5 | 88994 | ||
New Creature, I anticipated your quoting of James 2 and delt with it on my last response but had to edit it because I was over on word limit. So lets deal with James 2 shall we. First of all do you believe that God speaks in a forked toungue? Or that scripture contradicts itself? Or that Paul is schizophrenic? If your answer to any of these is yes, we have a different problem to deal with. The common passage quoted by works/salvation folks is James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. James 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. James 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; James 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God. James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? James 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. Now I will agree,if this was the entire bible and we had no other inspired scripture then one could only conclude that salvation is a joint venture of faith and works. But this is the point that we have been trying to make, that no scripture exist in a vacuum! God calls us to "rightly divide the word of truth" 2Tim2:15 So the question arises, what is James saying in light of the abundance of scripture that appears,on the surface, to say the opposite. Romans4, Titus 3:5, Eph 2:8-9,Roman 1,Gal 3:6,etc. Notice that in verse 23 its says Abraham was made RIGHTEOUS BY BELIEF/FAITH,and thereby had peace with God.Righteouss,simply meaning to be right before God, not guilty. You see this same language in Genesis and Romans 1. Since it has already been established through the rest of scripture that it is Christ in us that produces fruit, fruit will naturally follow. So too, will works. If you are a child of God, works will be produced, because works are a natural outpouring of true saving faith. And as verse 26 rightly says, faith w/o works is dead. Why? because a said faith cannot produce true works/fruit, only a true faith can. So you may ask how is it that Abraham and Rahab were "justified" by works,vs 24-25? Justification before God has already been established at the cross. Christ, yelled tetelisti, paid in full, our debt of sin. So what can this mean? Simply, that one way we recognize a believer is by his works. See vs 18. This is "justification" before man, not God. Do you see why scripture cannot exist in a vacuum? The sum of James 2 is that man is justified by faith alone, but a faith, that is not alone.Our works testify to our saving faith. I might add that works is not restricted to action and benevalonce to others, but also includes correct doctrine.Titus 2:7 in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified. May we worship Him with our heart, soul and mind. In Christian love, Brad |
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38 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | nivlac5 | 89058 | ||
New Creature, As I have pointed out, you seem to think that John 15:6 exist in a vacuum and thereby ignore the rest of scripture. Your interpretation of John 15:6 is faulty, simply because you seem to be in denial of the greater context of scripture which makes known of a sovereign God who saves, justifies, sactifies and glorifies His own. We will have to just agree to diagree about John 15:6. As I have pointed out, those who are truly His, will remain,(meno), and He will lose none(John 6). I can not drive the point home any further.I do want to respond to your last statement on John 10:27.28 You mentioned that man was inserted, this I agree with you. The passage is also read no one. But you see, it makes no difference, the meaning of the text has not changed. No one, means, just that, no one or power or demon or anything will snatch His own out of His hand.Please pay attention to John 10:28.John 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. The word never in the Greek is oo-may(G). It reads, nor ever, not at all,anywise. How much clearer can it be? If God's word, inspired and inerrant, says an emphatic NEVER,NOT AT ALL, then the only conclusion is that all that are His will never perish or lose their salvation. Well, we have gone around in circles and I ask that you ponder John 15:6, in light of the rest of scripture and in light of the character of God. I will leave you with some hermeneutical principles that will help with this issue and other issues that arise. 1) Interpret scripture with scripture. No scripture exist in a vacuum.There is a general principle of scripture called the perpiscuity of the word, it if clear and does not contradict itself Cor 14:33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 2)There is a general principle that the scriptures harmonize with each other. Why? because they are from God. There are no contradictions in scripture, paradoxes yes, difficulties yes, but no true contradictions 3)Be careful not to change the meaning of a word in mid sentence. See how it is used in the Greek and how it is used elsewhere. 4) Be careful not to read into the text something that is not there. 5) God calls us to worship Him with our heart, soul and mind. He calls us tor reason with the scriptures and to rightly divide the word of truth.Is 1:19,2Tim2:15. Scriptural logic is imperative for understanding God's word. I know our logic is not perfect because we are fallen creatures, but nevertheless the Word calls us to think. And this is not take away from the illumination principle which is the guide of the Holy Spirit.Mark 12:30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 4)Don't shy away from great bible teachers of the past. They have studied the scriptures and their imput, though not inspired, can shed light on difficult passages. Col 1:22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach-- In Christ, Brad |
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39 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | nivlac5 | 89378 | ||
Part I..New creature, just quoting scripture does not get you anywhere,please interpret it in light of the rest of scripture. You keep repeating the same verses and charge us with man's opinion, but yet you quote man's opinion, such as Clarke's comm.There is no confusion with these passages. So lets again revisit the passages you quote. First, please turn to John 17:1-4, the beginning of Jesus High Priestly prayer. Verses 2-3John 17:2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. You will see that all that the Father has given to the son, He gives Eternal Life(Salvation from God's wrath, which is our due punishment for our sin,Romans 6:23)Does not Jesus give Eternal Life to those whom the Father has given Him? Please see this in light of John 6:37. All that the Father gives WILL come to Jesus, and He will certainly not cast them out. Notice that in John 6:40, that who ever has the Son will be raised up by Him. Verse 51 says he who is in Christ, he will live forever(Eternal life, salvation). Again, all this in light of John 10:27,28, He gives them Eternal Life and they will NEVER(oo-may(G)(not ever, in no wise, never)perish(eternal damanation, separation from God) And twice, vs 28,29, Jesus says no one and yes that includes yourself, can snatch(remove, disqualify, forfeit) from the Grace of God's Hand. Again, all this in light of Hebrews 12:1,2 and Phil 1:6, which make it clear Who the author and finisher of our faith is. That faith, is a saving faith,that leads to Eternal life. Please view this again, in light of Romans 8 and the character of God(His promises, faithfulness etc) Part II to follow |
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40 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | nivlac5 | 89381 | ||
Part II Now back to the passages you site.These passages are either not dealing with salvation,eternal life, but rather with losing your salt and light towards others. And those who are truly His, as in John, if their faith is weak or they backslide they will be chastined by the Lord. The Lord chastens Whom He loves,Heb 12:6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES. No true child of God will lose erternal life. Consequences for disobedience, yes, loss of "rewards" at the judgement seat of Christ, yes. But none will face the great white throne judgement. They, by inheratance, imputation,substitution,sealing have Eternal Life. The other point behind htese verses is that they are actually making the case for eternal security. That is, if salvation could not be earned in the first place, neither could it be earned at any time,even if you could lose eternal life(which is not possible,see above). Your confusion, is in not understanding what Eternal Life is. The above passages are air tight and show that Eternal Life cannot be forfeited. 1) We have already gone over John 15:6. In light of the rest of scripture and God's coherency, those that never abide,were never in the promise of Eternal Life in the first place(see above). I have no problem with some who interpret this verse as those who have thir works burned up, such as the wood, hay, stubble, and thereby losing their salt and effectiveness in the world. But grant you, those that are His, will suffer loss,reward, blessing and be disciplined by the Lord. Eternal Life is not forfeited. 2) John 16:1. Since when does stumble,fall away, mean loss of Eternal Life? The passage does not say "be made to lose Eternal Life". The Greek word for offend is scandalidzo(G), where we get our word scandal. It means entrap,entice to sin. This same word is used by Jesus in the sermon on the Mount,Matt 5:29.If your right eye causes you to sin(stumble, offend, Strongs4624). And of course the whole point of the sermon on the mount is that we are sinners to the core and the bar of righteousness is so high that man cannot save himself, but needs the foreign righteousness of Christ(Phil 3, Romnas, Gal.)This verse has nothing to do with losing Eternal Life which is already possessed, promised,athoured,kept by our sovereign Triune God. If you go on to read John 16, you will see that Jesus is warning His own fop teh false teachers who will make them sumble, lose faith opr confidence in their work and thereby lose their salt and light in the world. But, what does He pormise them? A Helper, the Holy Spirit who will be their guide and comfort. We not only have the Holy Spirit, but also the Word to keep us from error.Part III to follow |
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