Results 81 - 100 of 1003
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: Rowdy Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
81 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Rowdy | 131491 | ||
Greek Words for Love, Part 3 (and to think, I trimmed it down greatly): So the point our Lord is making is that the value of an emotional, affectionate 'philos' love is based on how connected it is to true godly 'agape', sacrificial, love, which in the case of Peter, relates to Peter's feeding, i.e., teaching and taking care of our Lord's sheep, i.e., believers; especially since they belong to the Lord Jesus Christ. One can have 'philOs', affectionate love for someone but not have agape sacrificial, responsible, active, helpful, kind and truthful 'agape', godly love. It, (the 'philOs' love), then would have very limited worth or value, being unconnected to godly love. Some contrasts between agape and philia are as follows: Philia - Agape Natural - Learned Emotional - Volitional Discriminatory - Non-discriminatory Conditional - Unconditional Pleasure - Preciousness Delight - Esteem Liking - Prizing Because of - In spite of Fails - Never fails Looking forward to your response. God bless. Rowdy |
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82 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Rowdy | 131490 | ||
Greek Words for Love, Part 2: In respect of agapaO as used of God, it expresses the deep and constant love and interest of a perfect Being towards entirely unworthy objects, producing and fostering a reverential love in them towards the Giver, and a practical love towards those who are partakers of the same, and a desire to help others to seek the Giver. [Kenneth Wuest states, (Wuest's Word Studies, From the Greek New Testament, Vol 3, Eerdmans Publishing Co, Grand Rapids, Mi, 1992, no 28, p. 62]: "'Phileo' is a love which consists of the glow of the heart kindled by the perception of that in the object which affords us pleasure. It is the response of the human [soul] to what appeals to it as pleasurable... The word was used to speak of a friendly affection. It is a love called out of one in response to a feeling of pleasure or delight which one experiences from an apprehension of qualities in another that furnish such pleasure or delight. 'Agapao' on the other hand, speaks of a love which is awakened by a sense of value in the object loved, an apprehension of its preciousness. [Cp. Rev 22:15; Mt 6:5; 10:37; 23:6; Lk 20:46; Jn 11:3, 36; 16:27; 1 Cor 16:22] B) PASSAGES TO CONSIDER 1) AGAPE-SACRIFICIAL-SERVING-OF-OTHERS-LOVE VS PHILEO-AFFECTIONATE-LOVE a) [Jn 21:15-17]: (v. 15) "When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, 'Simon son of John, do you truly love ["agapas"] Me more than these [disciples]? 'Yes, Lord,' he said, 'you know that I love ["philO] you.' Jesus said, 'Feed My lambs.' (v. 16) Again Jesus said, 'Simon son of John, do you truly love ["agapas"] me?' He answered, 'Yes, Lord, you know that I ["philO"] you.' Jesus said, 'Take care of My sheep.' (v. 17) The third time He said to him, 'Simon son of John, do you love ["phileis"] Me?' Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time 'Do you love ["phileis"] Me?' He said, 'Lord, you know all things; you know that I love ["philO] you.' Jesus said, 'Feed My sheep.' " Notice that Peter uses the verb form "philO" that is rendered 'love' in answer to the Lord Jesus Christ Who uses another verb, "agapas" for the first two times He asked Peter His question, 'Do you love Me?' There is an obvious emphasis on the issue of whether or not Peter loves the Lord with "agapas" love with His two repetitions of this word, especially after Peter answered in the affirmative albeit with "philO": "Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love [philO] you." The difference between the two verbs can hardly be a simple choice of possible synonymous words for literary style purposes, especially with our Lord's repetition and Peter's use of another word for love, "philO". The intent of writer John which is readily observable is to report the words of our Lord and Peter and not do any editorializing for the sake of style or change of meaning. In the light of Peter's earlier three time denial of our Lord where he said he did not even know Him, (18:17, 25, 27); our Lord's three fold question paralleling Peter's threefold denial gave Peter an opportunity to restore his committment of agape and phileo love and of being a faithful disciple. Notice that Peter was hurt when our Lord asked him the question for the third time, (v. 17), which points to a difference in meaning between the two words, agapas and philO Peter's use of "philO" love instead of "agapas" love is striking and points to a difference of meaning. It is normative to respond to a question using the same verb if the same meaning is intended. And the converse is also true: It is basic to normative rules of language, context and logic that a response to a yes or no question that (1) goes beyond yes or no (2) changes the wording of the question (from agape to phileO forms) (3) leaves parts of the question out/unanswered ('more than these' ignored) usually implies an evasion of the question, i.e., a change of meaning. Just as a husband's response to his wife's question, 'Do you love me more than your job?' (Husband): 'You know that I have great affection for you' points to an evasion on all 3 counts; so Peter's response to our Lord's questions indicates an evasion of the intent of the question with a response that has changed the parameters of the question from (1) a single absolute yes or no (2) agape to phileO love (3) love Me 'more than these' to not addressing 'more than these' at all. Notice that our Lord's third question of 'Do you love me?' uses the verb "phileis". This parallels Peter's use of "phileo" love twice before in response to our Lord instead of "agapas". If the integrity of author John's account of this conversation is to have any validty, surely the verbs used here are an accurate rendering of that conversation which implies (my correction) a difference of meaning. Please read Part 3. Thanks and God bless. Rowdy |
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83 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Rowdy | 131489 | ||
Greek Words for Love, Part 1: I must admit, I didn't dream there was so much information on the internet about this subject, www.biblestudymanuals.net/love.htm. If you'll check out this website, you'll see I had to leave a great deal of information to squeeze on this exerpt. Please forgive. The bottom line is that although I do agree with you there is some small controversy on this subject as you mentioned. But a thorough study as has been cited on this website leads any serious Bible student to one single conclusion and that is there's a very real and distinct different type of love reflected in these two words. Everything about our God is far superior to anything you and I could ever think about man. Nothing we can do or say can even come close. So I must disagree with you, dear friend. I do hope you'll re-study the topic and pray about it. LOVE: A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE I) AGAPE LOVE A) INTRODUCTION [The New Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the NT, Joseph Henry Thayer, Hendrickson, Peabosy, Ma, 1981, p. 3]: "agapaO ..... to love, to be full of good-will and exhibit the same... to have a preference for, wish well to, regard the welfare of ... often of the love of Christians towards one another; of the benevolence which God in providing salvation for men, has exhibited by sending His Son to them and giving Him up to death... of the love which led Christ, in procuring human salvation to undergo sufferings and death... of the love with which God regards Christ..." [Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, W. E. Vine, Fleming H. Revell, Old Tappan, N. J., p. 20]: "Agape and agapaO are used in the N.T. (a) to describe the attitude of God toward His Son, John 17:26; the human race, generally, John 3:16; Rom 5:8; and to such as believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, particularly, John 14:21; (b) to convey His will to His children concerning their attitude one toward another, John 13:34, and toward all me, 1 Thess 3:12; 1 Cor 16:14; 2 Pet 1:7 (c) to express the essential nature of God, 1 John 4:8. Love can be known only from the actions it prompts. God's love is seen in the gift of His Son, 1 John 4:9, 10. But obviously this is not the love of complacency, or affection, that is, it was not drawn out by any excellency in its objects, Rom 5:8. It was an exercise of the Divine will in deliberate choice, made without assignable cause save that which lies in the nature of God Himself, cp. Deut 7:7, 8. Love had its perfect expression among men in the Lord Jesus Christ, 2 Cor 5:14; Eph 2:4; 3:19; 5:2; Christian love is the fruit of His Spirit in the Christian, Gal 5:22. Christian love has God for its primary object, and expresses itself first of all in implicit obedience to His commandments, John 14:15, 21, 23; 15:10; 1 John 2:5; 5:3; 2 John 6. Self-will, that is, self-pleasing, is the negation of love to God. Christian love, whether exercised toward the brethren, or toward men generally, is not an impluse from the feelings, it does not always run with the natural inclinations, nor does it spend itself only upon those for whom some affinity is discovered. Love seeks the welfare of all, Rom 15:2, and works no ill to any, 13:8-10; love seeks opportunity to do good to all men, and especially toward them that are of the household of the faith, Gal 6:10. Please read Part 2. Thanks and God bless. Rowdy |
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84 | Romans 6:4 sanctification or salvation? | Rom 6:4 | Rowdy | 131467 | ||
It seems to me that all of these features of christianity are bestowed upon those when they choose to submit to Christ as their Lord and Master. Baptism does seem to be the final step to put one in God's family but process of sanctification or "working out one's salvation" just starts at this point. We must see ourselves as eventually graduating from the milk of the Word and growing so as to understanding the tougher issues in God's Word. We also must see ourselves adding to our Christian nature the Armor of God, the Fruits of the Spirit and imitating the christians of the first century by bestowing acts of kindness to all on whom we come into contact like Christ our Lord. Of course eventually, we learn to avoid both the sin of commission as well as the sin of ommission and strive to gain a closer relationship with God by teaching as we're gifted to do so. We should learn to take up our cross, adopt a ministry as we see a need in our own community of christians. And of course, everyone knows we can never "retire" from Christianity until we die, Rev 2:10. I hope this helps and God bless. Rowdy |
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85 | Sound Doctrine Rooted in the Scriptures | Matt 24:24 | Rowdy | 131466 | ||
Truer words have never been posted. Amen, dear friend. God bless. Rowdy | ||||||
86 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Rowdy | 131453 | ||
I've heard the same is true about the Greek words in these three different questions and Peter's three different responses. To me, it seems pretty clear when one uses the Greek dictionary to clarify these two words. Correct me if I'm wrong. But as I understand it, agapao means "to give love without conditions, i.e. as God does" whereas phileo means "simple family love," i.e. between brothers or sisters. Again IMO, it seems that Jesus realized that Peter and His other disciples were NOT at that particular moment in time, quite ready to love their fellow man like God does. But Christ was willing to accept Peter's resolution to love his fellow man as a brother or a sister. Later on, with the assistance of the Holy Spirit in spiritually maturing Peter, we finally see that Peter does grow to love his fellow man with God's type of love without conditions. He even goes to the cross (according to tradition) believing in the Words of his Lord and Master. What a contrast: this willingness to die compared with his cowardly fear (like the rest of us) in the garden. We also see this kind of love in Peter's letters as we do throughout the NT. So once again, God realizes it's a refining process. First, He gets us off the addiction for sin and turned on to the prospect of spending eternity with Him in Heaven and spending time with our fellow christians here on earth. Then He assists us with the help of the Holy Spirit in graduating us from the kind of love offered by the world, i.e. eros to phileo and eventually gets us to at least appreciate His type of love, given freely to our fellow man without conditions. Hopefully, we as His children actually learn to prefer this kind of love as Christ showed on the cross. Then at that time, we can truly feel forgiveness for our sins because we've learn to completely forgive our fellow man as discussed in Jesus' parable of the debtors. Again, correct me if I'm mistaken on any of this but I'd be interested in your full opinion anyway. I really appreciate your quick response. I hope the storm didn't mess up too much of your life. God bless. Rowdy |
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87 | What about christian as a name? | Acts 11:26 | Rowdy | 131430 | ||
I'm sorry, I forgot to sign off with my name but I posted this article to the Forum. That's what you get when you in a rush. Mr. Graham actually authored the article in a christian publication. God bless. Rowdy |
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88 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Rowdy | 131429 | ||
I'm hoping you can confirm something for me. I've been taught that in this scene with Jesus and Peter that there were at least two different Greek words, i.e. philio and agape for the word love as used in the scripture above, John 21. Please tell me if you can, which of the Greek words were used and which question, "Do you love me?" Thanks and God bless. Rowdy Note to Tim Moran: Feel free to respond with your answer to this question if you would. Thanks. |
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89 | promise of family to thousand generation | John 3:16 | Rowdy | 131421 | ||
This subject of salvation has been hotly debated all the years of this Forum and for many, many centuries before, and will most likely continue to be debated till the ending of the world. You can see my posts on the subject by inserting the words Rowdy and salvation into the Quick Search of the upper right corner of your screen. I would like to remind you on that fateful Judgment Day, we'll ALL be judged by the sum total of all the words found in the NT as spoken by Jesus and His official representatives, His beloved Apostles. So that means whatever directives and actions they gave and followed when it involved remission of sins or some related topic, we should consider following. For starters, I would add to Hank's citations, the following: Matt 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." The first Gospel sermmon is good for guidance Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." There are other steps to salvation but this is enough to get started. Hope this helps and God bless. Rowdy |
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90 | What extra insight does this chp provide | NT general Archive 1 | Rowdy | 131347 | ||
For context: 1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 1 Cor 5:2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. 1 Cor 5:3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 1 Cor 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 1 Cor 5:5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Cor 5:6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 1 Cor 5:7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 1 Cor 5:8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 1 Cor 5:9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 1 Cor 5:10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 1 Cor 5:11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. 1 Cor 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 1 Cor 5:13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. We can infer a lot from the OT. Throughout that dispensation, the Lord instructed the Israelite nation to maintain a pure bloodline so as to produce the Son of God. Now there were several exceptions, like Ruth and Rahab but these exceptions were blessed by God to show us demonstrations of His wonderful Love and Grace. But my main point here is back to "mainenance of God's purity" in God's familly regardless of the dispensation. God is the very epitomy of Love, Perfect Justice and above all total separation from anything that represents any semblance of sin. So God wants us, his children to come Home to Him but he must get us transformed to sinless beings. It's a refining process, as described in several places in the NT, Rev 3:18 and others. First God must get us used to the idea of doing without sin in our lives here on earth. Then with His Assistance and Grace, he is able to graduate our beings from this existance to the next, Heaven for an eternity. On the other hand, if we allow sin "to infiltrate the camp" as in the example Achan in the Israelite family, then we endanger the whole group. One of the main jobs of the elders in a congregation of christians is to maintain this purity of God's family as cited in Acts 20:28-30. The procedure for maintaining this kind of discipline is found in Matt 18:15-20. It's a serious job, one that must be approached with much humility and love for that sinful party so he will repent and turn from his wicked ways. Hope this helps and God bless. Rowdy |
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91 | What about christian as a name? | Not Specified | Rowdy | 131344 | ||
Recently there's been some discussion about the name of christian and possibly coming up with some other alternative. I discovered this very powerful article based on a very old but appropriate story. I don't think I could add a thing. "Do You Wear the Name of Christ?" As christians, we should be constantly aware of the great privilege we have in being able to wear the name of our Saviour, Jesus Christ. As with any privilege, it is accompanied by a host of responsibilities. We learn of our responsibilites through His Holy Word; and desiring to grow into the image of our "namesake," we study that Word daily, don't we? There is a story told about Alexander the Great, who had already conquered the world. He was reviewing his troops when he saw a slovenly soldier who was a disgrace to his company. He asked the soldier for his name. The soldier replied, "Alexander, sir." The world ruler sternly said, "Soldier, change your ways, or change your name!" from W. Ken Graham |
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92 | What about christian as a name? | Acts 11:26 | Rowdy | 131386 | ||
Recently there's been some discussion about the name of christian and possibly coming up with some other alternative. I discovered this very powerful article based on a very old but appropriate story. I don't think I could add a thing. "Do You Wear the Name of Christ?" As christians, we should be constantly aware of the great privilege we have in being able to wear the name of our Saviour, Jesus Christ. As with any privilege, it is accompanied by a host of responsibilities. We learn of our responsibilites through His Holy Word; and desiring to grow into the image of our "namesake," we study that Word daily, don't we? There is a story told about Alexander the Great, who had already conquered the world. He was reviewing his troops when he saw a slovenly soldier who was a disgrace to his company. He asked the soldier for his name. The soldier replied, "Alexander, sir." The world ruler sternly said, "Soldier, change your ways, or change your name!" from W. Ken Graham |
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93 | Visions through angelic messengers only? | Obad 1:1 | Rowdy | 131120 | ||
I will grant you one thing. You seem to be learning not to shout so much on your posts. Keep studying and praying, dear friend. God bless. Rowdy |
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94 | Visions through angelic messengers only? | Obad 1:1 | Rowdy | 131105 | ||
Dear friend, I was sincerely trying to help you but apparently you don't want to heed the wise counsel of the majority on the Forum or even to the words of Paul so I must leave you on your own. I regret loosing you as a reasonable student with whom to spar and sharpen swords. Go in peace my friend. I'll not be responding to any more of your posts on this Forum but I do pray for that God blesses you with wisdom and understanding. Rowdy |
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95 | Visions through angelic messengers only? | Obad 1:1 | Rowdy | 131100 | ||
Please believe me! I already realize you're probably getting tired of seeing this kind of message and you may be getting tired of seeing responses from me. But I've seen most of your posts and have noticed you do have a rather zealous way about you. This Forum is used by folks with a wide spectrum of education, maturity (both spiritual and physical), and personalities. You have received at least a half dozen warnings and counsels from several reasonably well balanced people of this Forum. So I find myself joining in this resounding chorus. No matter what you may think, "a rose by any other name is still a rose" my friend. And your constant overuse of ALL CAPS in your Forum posts and statements is very definitely shouting. You've already noticed that practically all of us do use an occassional word in all caps to emphasize a point. But this should be use lightly like salt and pepper on food. When it's overdone like as in your posts, the end result is repulsive and is rejected without much adieu. So I would consel you my friend, if you really are serious about trying to win numerous people over to your way of thinking and your opinions, I would refer you to the words of Paul. 1 Cor 9:19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23Now this I do for the gospel's sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. I do hope you'll take this advice in the same spirit with which it is given...in love. (Not mine, I'm just trying to imitate God's love.) Me? I'm more inclined to dismiss you altogether but my God forgave me and I used to be just like you in my younger days. God bless. Rowdy |
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96 | Yet Another Opinion on Baptism, Part 2 | Amos 1:1 | Rowdy | 131098 | ||
Quoted from your post: Ephesians 1:12-14 That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ. Eph 1:13 In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the Word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory. Scripture supporting my response below: Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Heb 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Heb 9:16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. Heb 9:17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. Notice in particular Eph 1:14 and Heb 9:15-17. Don't you see our Lord died and left His Last Will and Testament in which He bequeathed to you, me and everyone in the whole world, past and future an eternal life with God in Heaven IF we meet His qualifications as a receipient. Yes, of course it's a Gift from God but we must accept it and just like in a court of law on Judgment Day, our God and ultimate Judge will be looking for those that have put on His Son's blood in accordance with His Words. How will our Lord and Father distinguish us from other sinners? God's children will have obeyed His and His Son's commands, and those whom He placed in charge when Jesus left this earth. Do continue studying. Remember we'll all be judged by ALL the words of the NT on Judgment Day. Thus we should represent a fully balanced Biblical view on these very important subjects, especially to those who don't know God's Word. Also we'll be held accountable for teaching error and promoting false doctrine. God bless. Rowdy |
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97 | Yet Another Opinion on Baptism, Part 2 | Not Specified | Rowdy | 130986 | ||
Excerpts from a book review, Part 2 From: Bobby Valentine Date: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:56 am Subject: Unveiling Glory: A Review Chapters 6 and 7 focus on the meaning of the atonment and resurrection. I thought again the authors did an admirable job with complex issues. They did not oversimplify but did try to communicate that Jesus death and resurrection are not just historical facts but have meaning for Christian living right now. Their call to "imitate" Jesus in his resurrection is a needed call to live the new life we begin in baptism with Christ. What the authors challenge us to avoid is reductionism. They correctly point out that we have often debated the essentiality of baptism but rarely the meaning of baptism. If what these authors write in chapter 3 is a "dismissing" of baptism I wish for more dismissing!! Hardly dismissing baptism these authors challenge us to look at our daily discipleship through the lens of baptism. We live baptismal lives. There actual words (though they say much more) are: "Baptism is not just a command to be obeyed, an essentail requirement to be checked off the list. Baptism is important because, in its essence, it connects the disciple to Jesus Christ. That is its basic meaning and key to its significance. Discussing baptism's essentiality reveals little, but looking into its essence can open our eyes to see the power of Jesus to cleanse and renew broken lives . . . " (pp. 58-59). The authors tell us three things begin as we "enter the waters with Jesus." First, we are reborn by water and Spirit by experiencing the washing of rebirth and renewal (p. 62). This certainly does not sound like a dismissing the essentiality of baptism . . . the authors just move us BEYOND that debate to say how does this moment continue to impact my life. Second, "in the water" we join Jesus . . . we become connected to him (p. 63). Third, "taken under the water, we . . . meet him in his death and resurrection" (p. 63). Following this the authors challenge a number of false dichotomies that are often constructed. They make some very good and insightful comments that salvation (and thus baptism) is both a divine and human moment. For example: "Baptism initiates us into the new humanity by connecting us with the Second Adam. It is not primarily an act of obedience that qualifies us for salvation. It is not like a lever we throw to receive the membership card that will gain us entry at the pearly gates. Nor is it a mere external human work, to be downplayed due to an emphasis on God's grace . . . the picture we get in the baptistry should match the one we get at the Jordon, where the fragmants of our humanity are being put back together under God, not broken further apart." (pp. 67-68). After a number of observations on real discipleship and truly dismissing the notion of "cheap grace" the authors spend considerable time on the implications of baptism for daily living. This is a needed thing in many churches. Here is one example: "Discipleship is not one-sided. It does not begin with us. Discipleship begins with the Lord. It is a response to the commitment God has already made to us, founded on a relationship and a covenant established in a muddy river in a tiny country where one who is both God and man humbled himself in the waters of baptism." (p. 77). We do the same. This book, while not flawless, should be welcomed by all who want to think through the implications of Jesus of Nazareth for living for God. I invite you to read this book for yourself. I pray you do. Shalom, Bobby Valentine Milwaukee, WI Ut omnes unum sint (John 17.21, Vulgate) End of review. I'd be interested in your opinions if you've read the book. God bless. Rowdy |
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98 | Yet Another Opinion on Baptism, Part 2 | Amos 1:1 | Rowdy | 131068 | ||
Excerpts from a book review, Part 2 From: Bobby Valentine Date: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:56 am Subject: Unveiling Glory: A Review Chapters 6 and 7 focus on the meaning of the atonment and resurrection. I thought again the authors did an admirable job with complex issues. They did not oversimplify but did try to communicate that Jesus death and resurrection are not just historical facts but have meaning for Christian living right now. Their call to "imitate" Jesus in his resurrection is a needed call to live the new life we begin in baptism with Christ. What the authors challenge us to avoid is reductionism. They correctly point out that we have often debated the essentiality of baptism but rarely the meaning of baptism. If what these authors write in chapter 3 is a "dismissing" of baptism I wish for more dismissing!! Hardly dismissing baptism these authors challenge us to look at our daily discipleship through the lens of baptism. We live baptismal lives. There actual words (though they say much more) are: "Baptism is not just a command to be obeyed, an essentail requirement to be checked off the list. Baptism is important because, in its essence, it connects the disciple to Jesus Christ. That is its basic meaning and key to its significance. Discussing baptism's essentiality reveals little, but looking into its essence can open our eyes to see the power of Jesus to cleanse and renew broken lives . . . " (pp. 58-59). The authors tell us three things begin as we "enter the waters with Jesus." First, we are reborn by water and Spirit by experiencing the washing of rebirth and renewal (p. 62). This certainly does not sound like a dismissing the essentiality of baptism . . . the authors just move us BEYOND that debate to say how does this moment continue to impact my life. Second, "in the water" we join Jesus . . . we become connected to him (p. 63). Third, "taken under the water, we . . . meet him in his death and resurrection" (p. 63). Following this the authors challenge a number of false dichotomies that are often constructed. They make some very good and insightful comments that salvation (and thus baptism) is both a divine and human moment. For example: "Baptism initiates us into the new humanity by connecting us with the Second Adam. It is not primarily an act of obedience that qualifies us for salvation. It is not like a lever we throw to receive the membership card that will gain us entry at the pearly gates. Nor is it a mere external human work, to be downplayed due to an emphasis on God's grace . . . the picture we get in the baptistry should match the one we get at the Jordon, where the fragmants of our humanity are being put back together under God, not broken further apart." (pp. 67-68). After a number of observations on real discipleship and truly dismissing the notion of "cheap grace" the authors spend considerable time on the implications of baptism for daily living. This is a needed thing in many churches. Here is one example: "Discipleship is not one-sided. It does not begin with us. Discipleship begins with the Lord. It is a response to the commitment God has already made to us, founded on a relationship and a covenant established in a muddy river in a tiny country where one who is both God and man humbled himself in the waters of baptism." (p. 77). We do the same. This book, while not flawless, should be welcomed by all who want to think through the implications of Jesus of Nazareth for living for God. I invite you to read this book for yourself. I pray you do. Shalom, Bobby Valentine Milwaukee, WI Ut omnes unum sint (John 17.21, Vulgate) End of review. I'd be interested in your opinions if you've read the book. God bless. Rowdy |
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99 | Yet Another Opinion on Baptism, Part 1 | Not Specified | Rowdy | 130985 | ||
Excerpts from a book review, Part I From: Bobby Valentine Date: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:56 am Subject: Unveiling Glory: A Review Greetings Cyberfriends and family, Unveling Glory: Visions of Christ's Transforming Presence by Jeff Childers and Frederick Aquino (ACU Press, 2003). On one level the book is well written. It is easy to read and the authors do a fine job of presenting a challenging subject to a reader who is unfamiliar with Christological issues. But we are not interested in just the finesse of the prose but in what the authors are trying to say. The burden of the book is that the life of Jesus Christ matters to Christian discipleship and how we "do" church. This is, in my view, a very healthy and sound position to take. Jesus did not just come to demonstrate his authority to empower the apostles to give a new law, he himself is central to the entire "equation." Through the Incarnation we learn fundamental truths about the nature of Christian existence as the new humanity. I personally think this section of the book is among the most needed in our fellowship. The book also looks at Jesus as our Teacher and ourselves as Learners (disciples). This again is very good material. Here again the concern of the authors that Jesus matters himself for the church is quite evident. We all agree that Jesus matters, that is not the issue and we should be clear on that. However what the authors, I think, wish to make clear is that Jesus himself is the church's Teacher, not simply his empowered apostles. This is important because some (not all) brethren will relegate the teaching of Jesus in the Gospels as "before the cross" and not binding. But these authors challenge this view . . . I think correctly. Jesus' teaching on living in the kingdom is for the Christian, not just Jews in Palestine in the first century. Please check out Part II. Rowdy |
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100 | Yet Another Opinion on Baptism, Part 1 | Amos 1:1 | Rowdy | 131064 | ||
Excerpts from a book review, Part I From: Bobby Valentine Date: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:56 am Subject: Unveiling Glory: A Review Greetings Cyberfriends and family, Unveling Glory: Visions of Christ's Transforming Presence by Jeff Childers and Frederick Aquino (ACU Press, 2003). On one level the book is well written. It is easy to read and the authors do a fine job of presenting a challenging subject to a reader who is unfamiliar with Christological issues. But we are not interested in just the finesse of the prose but in what the authors are trying to say. The burden of the book is that the life of Jesus Christ matters to Christian discipleship and how we "do" church. This is, in my view, a very healthy and sound position to take. Jesus did not just come to demonstrate his authority to empower the apostles to give a new law, he himself is central to the entire "equation." Through the Incarnation we learn fundamental truths about the nature of Christian existence as the new humanity. I personally think this section of the book is among the most needed in our fellowship. The book also looks at Jesus as our Teacher and ourselves as Learners (disciples). This again is very good material. Here again the concern of the authors that Jesus matters himself for the church is quite evident. We all agree that Jesus matters, that is not the issue and we should be clear on that. However what the authors, I think, wish to make clear is that Jesus himself is the church's Teacher, not simply his empowered apostles. This is important because some (not all) brethren will relegate the teaching of Jesus in the Gospels as "before the cross" and not binding. But these authors challenge this view . . . I think correctly. Jesus' teaching on living in the kingdom is for the Christian, not just Jews in Palestine in the first century. Please check out Part II. Rowdy |
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