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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | RAPTURE | Bible general Archive 3 | kalos | 165562 | ||
The Rapture of the Church Question: "1.When does Rapture take place, is it before tribulation or after tribulation?" Answer: 'Following is a definition of pretribulationism and one of the prewrath position. 'Pretribulationalism 'This view was first known as "the secret" or "any moment rapture." It is a relatively new position which was first taught by the founder of the Catholic Apostolic Church, Edward Irving, in the late 1820's. It was then picked up by Plymouth Brethren pastor John Nelson Darby, and he first preached on it in 1843. It came to America in the late 1800's... 'Pretribulationists teach that the return of Christ has been imminent since the days of the early church and that the church will be raptured sometime before the seventieth week begins. Although they have no Scripture that in so many words teaches it, they teach that there are no signs and the rapture could take place at any moment. The seventieth week of Daniel is therefore considered to be a seven-year period of God's judgmental "tribulation" (hence the term pretribulation). This position generally views the seventieth week as the day of the Lord's wrath from which the church is excluded.' Prewrath 'The Prewrath position teaches that the true church will be raptured when the great tribulation by Antichrist, inspired by Satan, is cut short by God's day-of-the-Lord wrath, which will occur between the sixth and seventh seals of Revelation, sometime during the second half of the seventieth week. The persecution associated with the great tribulation of Antichrist is viewed as the wrath of Satan, whereas the events that follow, beginning with the seventh seal, are considered the wrath of God. There is another term that is sometimes expressed, "historical premillennialism," which refers back to the teaching of the early church fathers before 325 A.D. who believed that the church would face the persecution of Antichrist and Christ would then reign for 1000 years upon the earth. With the exception of two, Origen and Clement of Alexandria, who were allegorist, they all taught this view. Prewrath is plainly and simply an expansion of this view which was biblical then and biblical now.' ____________________ (www.solagroup.org) Grace to you, Kalos |
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2 | RAPTURE | Bible general Archive 3 | mark d seyler | 165578 | ||
Hi Kalos, Luke 21:8-36 (8) And He said, Watch that you not be led astray. For many will come on My name, saying, I AM! Also, The time has come! Do not go after them. (9) And when you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be afraid. For these things must first occur, but the end is not at once. (10) Then He said to them, Nation will be lifted up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. (11) Also there will be great earthquakes from place to place, and famines, and plagues. And also there will be terrors and great signs from Heaven. (12) But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you, and will persecute you, delivering you into the synagogues and prisons, being led away before kings and governors on account of My name. (13) But it will return to you for a testimony. (14) Then put into your hearts not to premeditate to make a defense. (15) For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all those opposing you will not be able to withstand or contradict. (16) But you will be betrayed also by parents, and brothers, and relatives, and friends. And they will put some of you to death. (17) And you will be hated by all because of My name. (18) And a hair of your head shall in no way perish. (19) By your patience you will gain your souls. (20) And when you see Jerusalem being encircled by armies, then recognize that its destruction has come near. (21) Then let those in Judea flee into the mountains; and those in its midst, let them go out. And those in the open spaces, let them not go into her. (22) For these are days of vengeance when all things that have been written are to be fulfilled. (23) But woe to the pregnant women, and the ones suckling in those days; for great distress will be on the earth and wrath on this people. (24) And they will fall by the mouth of the sword and will be led captive to all the nations. And Jerusalem will be trodden down by nations, until the times of the nations are fulfilled. (25) And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with bewilderment, roaring of sea and of surf, (26) men fainting from fear, and expectation of the things coming on the earth. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (27) And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and much glory. Dan. 7:13 (28) But these things beginning to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near. (29) And He spoke a parable to them: You see the fig tree and all the trees. (30) Now when they sprout leaves, seeing it, you will know from yourselves that now the summer is near. (31) So also when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. (32) Truly I say to you, In no way will this generation pass away until all these things shall occur. (33) The heaven and the earth will pass away, but My Words will not pass away, never! (34) But take heed to yourselves that your hearts not be loaded down with headaches, and drinking, and anxieties of life, and that day come suddenly upon you (35) as a snare, for it will come in on all those sitting on the face of all the earth. Isa. 24:17 (36) Then be watchful at every time, begging that you be counted worthy to escape all these things, the things being about to happen, and to stand before the Son of Man. (LITV) In Jesus' teaching recorded in Luke 21, as Jesus answers His disciple's questions regarding the end of the age, we see: 2 verses of preliminary signs (8-9) 2 verses of signs and judgments (10-11) 13 verses describing the persecution that is to come (12-24) 2 verses describing more signs of the end times (24-26) 1 verse about Jesus coming in glory (27) 7 verses about the certainty of these prophecies being fulfilled, and what our response should be (28-35) and then Jesus says this: Luke 21:36 Then be watchful at every time, begging that you be counted worthy to escape all these things, the things being about to happen, and to stand before the Son of Man. (LITV) What portion of this chapter would Jesus have been refering to by "all these things"? Would it be the "these things" of vss. 9 and 12? Perhaps the "all things" of vs. 22? In vs 28 He tells us when "these things" BEGIN to happen, our redemption is near. I think I know what Jesus means by "all these things." I think He means "all these things". What do you think? How do we escape them? By dying before they occur? But what would being counted worthy have to do with dying, which everybody does. On the otherhand, there is a time coming when Jesus will remove those who are His. I pray that we will, each of us, be counted worthy, that we may escape these things, as Jesus recommends. Love in Christ, Mark |
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3 | RAPTURE | Bible general Archive 3 | kalos | 165601 | ||
Luke 21:36 NKJV "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy[R144] to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man." (FOOTNOTE: F144 NU-Text reads may have strength.) "that you may be counted worthy." 'Older Manuscripts say "that you may have strength.' (Footnote at Luke 21:36, MacArthur Study Bible, Word Publishing, 1997) I wonder, if this verse pertains to the rapture, then how much strength must one have to be raptured? Good News Translation - Second Edition Be on watch and pray always that you will have the strength to go safely through all those things that will happen and to stand before the Son of Man. Holman Christian Standard Bible® But be alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place and to stand before the Son of Man." The NET Bible (New English Translation) But stay alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that must happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.” |
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4 | RAPTURE | Bible general Archive 3 | mark d seyler | 165602 | ||
Hi Kalos, I am not aware of the exact manuscript evidence for "strength". My sources tell me that the Byzantine, Majority, and Received Texts all show "be counted worthy". Only the Alexandrian shows "have strength", so this would indicate to me that probibly 2 percent or less of extant manuscripts would say "have strength". Your quote of the Good News certainly takes some liberties with the text, either way! Did you know that while we do not have any early Greek manuscripts of the commonly used types (Byzantine, Majority), at least not as old as the few Alexandrian which we do have, we have literally thousands of Versions (texts in other languages), quotes, and lectionaries that are as old, and older, even two hundred years earlier? And did you know that these versions can be divided into these same textual families as the Greek manuscripts? The upshot of this is that we can know that all these variations occured from the very beginning. It was not so much a matter of errors creeping in and being carried on down thru the centuries, oh, there was some of that, to be sure, but there was a lot of error introduced to some manuscripts right away. Doesn't sound very kosher! Being older isn't equal to being better. There is a much larger body of evidence for the Byzantine and Majority (which are nearly identical) manuscript families than there is for the Alexandrian, even with its few older Greek manuscripts. Were you aware that the two main "older, better manuscripts", the Siniaticus and the Vaticanus, only agree with each other about 75 percent of the time? I still pray that I am counted worthy (with His righteousness) to escape all these things. Were it based on my strength, well, I'm not so sure about that. But I don't think it is. Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | RAPTURE | Bible general Archive 3 | kalos | 165622 | ||
Mark: Yes, I am very aware that earlier Greek texts are not necessarily better than later ones. I don't completely buy into the argument that says we should discard a variant reading of the text merely because it is based on a later manuscript. You write: "the Good News certainly takes some liberties with the text, either way!" May I say to you that I agree? It certainly does! Grace to you, Kalos |
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