Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is water baptism must for Holy communion | NT general Archive 1 | justme | 75342 | ||
Reformer Joe: Its ok to disagree I don't mind. Could you give some scripture that supports your view? I have seen many people take communion that had questional sins which should disqualify them, but did anyway. I have seen unsaved Servicemen given communion as well. Ultimately it is God who will judge the situation and the heart of the partaker. Thanks for your opinion. justme |
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2 | Is water baptism must for Holy communion | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 75440 | ||
"Could you give some scripture that supports your view?" Yes. The book of Acts. While one is justified by faith alone, one joins the visible church by baptism. In every single recorded conversion in the book of Acts, baptism immediately followed. The notion of an "unbaptized Christian" has absolutely no Scriptural support whatsoever in the life of the New Testament church. While one cannot see into the heart of a communicant, offering communion to someone who is openly unrepentant in their sin or even a professing non-believer is the height of pastoral irresponsibility. You are correct that God will judge the situation (see 1 Corinthians 11 for the judgment, BTW), but He will judge more than the heart of the partaker. He will judge the actions of the one entrusted with the administration of the ordinances of Jesus Christ. Woe to the minister who knowingly fails to revere what Jesus sanctified for His people alone. --Joe! |
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3 | Is water baptism must for Holy communion | NT general Archive 1 | justme | 75630 | ||
Reformer Joe: There is no doubt that new believers must confess Jesus as Lord in open confession, through Baptism. I am not speaking about someone who is unrepentant in a defiant way. My point is that not everyone has a choice in taking communion. While in the USN everyone took a wafer dipped in grape juice as it was required, and there was no choice about it not partaking. I have more than reasonable doubt nonbelievers took communion in bootcamp. The Priest that administered the commuinon was following his orders as well. I was not then, and am not a Roman Catholic now. I felt rather out of place in this worship and communion service. AS to if a person should or should not take communion, if they are not Baptized, that would require "closed communion" which I find unscriptual. The cloice to partake or not to, is up to the believer, they alone can judge if they are to partake or not. Scripture say's we are to examine ourselves. Partaking unworthly as the church of Corinth was doing was condemed by Paul, and serves as an example today as to what is not acceptable. I personally am not as concerned about new Christians taking commuinon before being Baptized. I am more concerened about ordinary Christians who have been baptized, maybe some in ministry, who have secret sins. Quite often we hear of pastors in affairs, or those in church leadership doing immoral acts, that no one knows of, only God Himself. I believe we live in times that sexual purity in Christians is not much better than the worlds view. I have seen a good number of pastors witch lost their families and ministries because of sexual sin. Yet until they were caught they did commuinon services, Baptisms, Weddings and preach. I am sure every sexual sin there is, many churches have members is sin today. I do not see that a pastor doing his or her best in being obediant to the call of Christ, and administering communion, can be called irresponsible if he or she is unaware of such sins of the people. I most certianly can not find damnation for a child or unsaved person partakes is under Gods to be punnished list. I see Communion as an ordaince not a sacrement. I revere Jesus and what He said, but let us not forget Judas took the cup as well, and followed Jesus, he saw the healings and much more. Does that not show even our Lord knew what was in Judas' heart? If I being a mear mortal, can not know a persons heart, then that makes the partakers accountablity to the Lord Jesus, not me. In responding to you Joe, I am not attempting to disagree with you. I just see there is a large gray area that is left up to each believer or unbeliever that no pastor can be held accountable for. We each must face Christ, face to face and let His judgement be given to us in His mercy and grace. Perhaps we as sinfull humans have harsher judgement on each other than the Lord Himself. Perhaps, I have seen commuinon done in many ways that has been inlightening for me. I have seen communion services before a bombimg run took place, when someone was about to die, at a table with family, between a small group of church leaders, and after a funeral service. Churches have communion at different times sone every Lords day, or once a month, or quarterlty, yearly. The ways of actually eating the bread and wine, are just as verrird as well. Some use saltien crakers, some real unlevened bread, then some use grape juice and some real wine. I have ever heard of what ever juce was available at the time. I think the most important thing is we do the communion as remembering Christ is our risen LORD and by Grace from Jesus are told to fo this in remembering Him. I don't know it all, and I certainly would not fault some one who does the service differently unBiblical. There is a wide understanding on this issue that's for sure. Blessings and peace. justme |
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4 | Is water baptism must for Holy communion | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 75634 | ||
"My point is that not everyone has a choice in taking communion. While in the USN everyone took a wafer dipped in grape juice as it was required, and there was no choice about it not partaking." Wow, that is surprising. So what if the navy man was a Muslim? No one could object on religious grounds? If it was a Roman Catholic Priest, I cannot imagine him using grape juice and going against the RCC catechism. What decade are we talking about here? "I do not see that a pastor doing his or her best in being obediant to the call of Christ, and administering communion, can be called irresponsible if he or she is unaware of such sins of the people." Lack of awareness is one thing. Should a minister permit communion participation from an openly homosexual professing believer, however? "I most certianly can not find damnation for a child or unsaved person partakes is under Gods to be punnished list." For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. --1 Corinthians 11:29 Paul even links the unworthy participation in communion to the sickness and death of Corinthian church members in this chapter. "I revere Jesus and what He said, but let us not forget Judas took the cup as well, and followed Jesus, he saw the healings and much more." Actually, Judas left before the institution of the Lord's Supper (John 13:30). "Blessings and peace." And to you! :) --Joe! |
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5 | Is water baptism must for Holy communion | NT general Archive 1 | justme | 76153 | ||
Reformer Joe: You will have to remember I am as old as dirt, and my experience in the Navy was in the sixties, so yes it was decades ago. That was also at a time there was still segragation, and women were not allowed on ships, or in combat, and we did as we instructed or the consequences were sever. Religion was on the dog tags as Protestant or Catholic or Jewish. I never heard of anyone who called thenselves Muslin then. I am sure that is not the case now. Scripture makes the partaker responsible for being unworthy in taking communion. I was once a member of a 5,000 member SBC church. There is no way a pastor could be held as irresponsible if unworthy people partook. That is the work of the Holy Spirit, is it not? As for Judas, do you think the breaking of bread and the drinking of wine was done only at the last supper? That was done as symbolic of the passover before Jesus became flesh. The same is true with baptism, it was practiced for converts to Judiaism. Many of the customs and ordiances we have as Christians have been carried over. Then again some very unscriptual things have become very prevelent in the church today. Just look at most chruches at Ressurection Sunday, most refer to that Holy day as easter! Eastar was a goddess od fertility! Yet most Christians polute this special day with estar! Who is being irresonsible in this? Joe, I never said anything about homosexuals taking communion! I fail to see what I said would give you any idea that was in anything I said. I think perhaps you are not understanding me correctly. I never said there would not be judgement for partaking unworthly. What I said was damnation. I say what ever a person does is between then and the Lord, and he will judge, not me or anyone else. I believe in open communion where the believer determines their own worthyness. That is whatit means when Paul says each one should examine them self. Perhaps I am wrong, as sometimes its hard to see in a note the tone of a person. However, I feel that you are belittling me in you note. Especially when refering to when I genuinely say Blessings and Peace. That is exactely what I really mean. If you find that my note or understanding of Scripture in error, than you are welcome to be up front about it, but please don't mock me in asking and doubting what I said was truth. I have no idea weather the Priest used real wine or not. To be honest that was not important to me. Even today that is not an issue for me. I found out first hand, that at a time of serious illness or being wounded the prayers of of a Roman Catholic or Protestant chaplin were most welcome, and comforting. I think most injured Armed Service personal would agree, even today. Chaplins in the Service serve ALL faiths, that is required of them. However even though it is required I found Chaplins were guinely concerned and qualified to minister in an effective way. I had no intentions of ruffing up anyones fur, I hope this explains my thoughts better. justme |
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6 | Is water baptism must for Holy communion | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 76176 | ||
My fur wasn't ruffled, justme. As far as I was concerned, we were just having a friendly discussion. Thanks for sharing. My point was that I believe a minister should not knowingly administer communion to one whom he KNOWS to be living an openly unrepentant and sinful lifestyle. May you be renewed this Lord's Day! --Joe! |
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