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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | Morant61 | 204447 | ||
Greetings RC! You wrote: "Pre Trib has only been taught since its invention in 1830 AD" Now, I do not happen to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. However, this statement is not historically accurate. Here is a quote from an older post of mine. ****************** These quotes about Margaret McDonald have been thrown around quite abit, but they ignore much historical evidence that has been around for much longer. Here is a post I posted a long time ago about this issue: **************************************** Greetings Kalos! From the reading I have done, it seems that post-tribulationists have tried very hard to make it seem that a pre-tribulational rapture is a recent deveolopment in theology. However, there is evidence dating from between 300-600 a.d. of a pre-tribulational rapture. This evidence is found in a document called "Pseudo-Ephraem's Sermon." Here is a quote which discusses the nature of this document: ******************************************** "The word "Pseudo" (Greek for false) is a prefix attached by scholars to the name of a famous historical person or book of the Bible when one writes using that name. Pseudo-Ephraem claims that his sermon was written by Ephraem of Nisibis (306-73), considered to be the greatest figure in the history of the Syrian church. He was well-known for his poetics, rejection of rationalism, and confrontations with the heresies of Marcion, Mani, and the Arians. As a poet, exegete, and theologian, his style was similar to that of the Jewish midrashic and targumic traditions and he favored a contemplative approach to spirituality. So popular were his works that in the fifth and sixth centuries he was adopted by several Christian communities as a spiritual father and role model. His many works, some of doubtful authenticity, were soon translated from Syriac into Greek, Armenian, and Latin." (http://millennianet.com/atpro4se/ancient.html) ********************************************** The relevant quotation is quoted below: "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins." -Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627)" The true authorship and the quality of the document are not really that important for this discussion. The important part is that we have a clear pre-tribulational statement dating over 1000 years before Darby or Margaret McDonald. Thus, the belief itself has been around for much longer than 150 years. I hope this helps! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | RC Scrolls | 204453 | ||
I remember studying this document and I found alot of assumption involved, especially when more than a few copies of the syriac version of Revelation States that Revelation was written by John who was banished to the Island of Patmos by the emporer Nero. I agree that at first glance it looks like that and I wouldnt dought that possibly He did think like that, But we have to keep in mind that many have come up with Doctrines that were self imposed and generally of a bad Hermenutic. In light of hundreds of statements that differed at His time. He may have been a great Saint in many areas but that doesent constitute that He was correct or truley believed in this Eschatology. I always have Dispensationalists look at all their witnesses, which sometimes are Premillenial and not dispensational or pre trib, mid trib etc. I personelly could find five throught out all History and studied that only two statements were acurate as Pretrib. I cant even remember the other one. We run into alot of trouble in the 1800s with alot of Heresy. in deed alot created by the Millerites. I dismiss that Ephraem of Nisibis wrote it being that the one who found the writing had alot of other discrepencies. Also When I did some other research on the people of His day I couldnt find any witnesses to to state anything that He taught even remotely to that end. How ever after stating that atleast we do have one witness in that time who was Pretrib perhappaps the author of that Doc. I whish I had all my study on this matter but it was probably 22-25 yrs ago that I had done it.I also know that your not a dispie, and I appreciate your Help. But I dont think that we can say that it was a doctrine that had any creedance to it at all. For His hearers never back ed it up. So a great Saint thats assured that he was,but that He made famous this view we cant trust because of His great Teaching. Especially in light of the Syriatic Version and all the other witnesses of His time. Good to hear From you Tim its been awhile. I went through chemo again after eight yrs ago. Did it eveyday for 10 months lost fifty pounds and I am just now recovering, I look like a wet squirrel. I will try to restudy some of the facts that I have stated and send them to you, so you dont have to guess at my statements.Oh Im not even close to being a post triber either, only a post Triber if you believe that the tribulation happened in 63-70AD. I Do how about you. Dispensationalism is cracking all around them as Tim La Haye states now.We are about to go through somewhat of a revival with the Oldest Church Doctrines in History. I believe that infatically, and that Dispies will be dismissed very shortly as those who did stumble over the scriptures, when History is written in about 20 to 30 yrs from now. love in Christ Jesus RC |
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3 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | Morant61 | 204464 | ||
Greetings RC! Sorry to hear about the chemo! I know that I haven't heard from you for awhile. We will all keep you in our prayers my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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