Results 1 - 7 of 7
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Have we chosen freely? | James 2:19 | flinkywood | 87032 | ||
EdB, Good point about the OT faithful. Could you expand on 1)how predestination would embarrass Rome, and 2)what "good and righteous men" finally saw at the end of the path? What kind of embarrassment? Why the desperate search? Where was the path leading? I'm curious how your answers fit with your saying that God actually picks some for salvation. Thanks. |
||||||
2 | Have we chosen freely? | James 2:19 | EdB | 87037 | ||
Colin God picks everyone for salvation and allows them the choice to accept or reject His love. The reformation had to develop a legal reason to oppose Rome. Remember at the time Rome controlled both the political as well as the religious world. To this they had to show that Rome's teaching was in error. Hence they conceived predestination. They knew if something was repeated and talked about enough it would become the accepted belief, hence they had the hole they were looking for to attack Rome’s teaching. Remember they had to present their case to the King of France who really didn’t care about Rome’s injustices, he would only have to deal with what could be proven. Calvin a lawyer of the time only saved about year before this wrote his Institutes of Christianity to make a legal case showing the virtue of the Reformation. Many have taken this legal brief word smithed by one the best as a religious document detailing authentic church doctrine. Because it suited them and played into the reformers hand they allowed this to continue unopposed for about 100 years. At this time many stood up and said enough your making God out to be a tyrant, a puppetmaster rather than being the loving God He is. Unfortunately the tide of opinion had swung and many of these men met their maker at the end of ropes or tied to a stake. It wasn’t until the Bible became common place that man could truly understand the nature of God. That He didn’t create us to manipulate us but rather to draw us to Him in response to the love he pours out upon us. He honors men and women that maintain the faith in him. The predistinationalist would have us believe he is honoring men and women that had not other choice than follow Him. Do some searches this subject has been discussed at great length and serves little purpose repeating. Those that hold to predestination refuse to view the evidence in light of the whole scripture choosing to focus on a few verse that seem to confirm their position. EdB |
||||||
3 | Have we chosen freely? | James 2:19 | flinkywood | 87040 | ||
Yes, I believe that everyone is eligible for salvation through choice; and though He already knows what will be, we don't, which makes our trust in Him so precious. Our continued, applied trust in Him is what, I think, you were developing in your string on James, and which evidently nullifies Predestinarianism on 2 grounds. 1) If we presume we are predestined, we have become proud before God, a sin, which nullifies any genuine repentance and, therefore, any assurance of salvation. This was the catch-22 for Puritans, the problem of assurance: "How can I know I'm saved? If I think I am, I sin, so I'm not. Better just work my bloomers off." This also leads to salvation being losable, which is another trap of pride, since only God can know who's the real McCoy. 2) The faith by works of James becomes hope by works for the predestinarian: since he can't know he's saved, he falls into the Roman Catholic trap of salvation through works, which yields pride, which yields doubt, which yields...oh boy. Which leads me to ask whether Predestinarianism is really a Roman Catholic spin-off? A kind of midway between Rome and the Reformation? Works save because we can't really know. Colin |
||||||
4 | Have we chosen freely? | James 2:19 | Emmaus | 87050 | ||
flinywood, I think your understanding of the Catholic doctrine of Justification is flawed and inaccurate. You may find the link below helpful in coming to an accurate understanding. Whether you agree or disagree with the full teaching, you will at least have an accurate undertsanding of it. Some portions may surprise you. Here is a brief excerpt which is to the the gratuitousness of justification by grace. "CHAPTER VIII HOW THE GRATUITOUS JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER BY FAITH IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely,[44] these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God[45] and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace." The Council of Trent on Justification http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT6.HTM Emmaus |
||||||
5 | Have we chosen freely? | James 2:19 | flinkywood | 87052 | ||
I'll read it, Emmaus. thanks for the link. I recently had a serious 1-way conversation (her way) with a professed catholic, who insisted Protestantism was bunk, that "modern" catholics were misled, that you can't know whether you're saved, and that it's all about good works. I asked whether she'd read the bible; she told me she didn't need to. I don't think she's a typical catholic. Colin. |
||||||
6 | Have we chosen freely? | James 2:19 | Emmaus | 87062 | ||
flinkywood, May I recommend a book you might find interesting? When I read it I felt I was for the first time able to see the faith through Protestant eyes as it were. The book lays out the essentials of Protestant theology and its developement and then shows its relationship to Catholicism. It is not light reading but very worthwhile. It was written by a Frenchman who was raised as a Calvinist and was a Calvinist minister before becoming a Catholic priest. He was also a professor of history. It was written in the early 1950s and is still in print. It is not at all polemic. It is said that Protestants and Catholics alike find it enjoyable and irritating in turn depending on the part of the book they are reading at the moment. I think it is one of the best books I have ever read on the relationship between Protestant and Catholic theology on Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide and Soli Deo Gloria. It is: The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism by Louis Bouyer. You can order it at Amazon or any major bookstore chain. If you get it and don't think it was worthwhile or worth keeping, I will buy it back from you. Not long ago I gave my pastor a copy as a gift. Emmaus |
||||||
7 | Have we chosen freely? | James 2:19 | flinkywood | 87067 | ||
Emmaus, I'm going to look it up. Like Sargeant Schulz, I know nothing, and this string has got me amped to fix that. Thanks a pile. Colin |
||||||