Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | Zsuzsi | 121801 | ||
Hi everyone, I have been reading your posts and this is my general answer to all of you: I agree that you need humility and subjection and patience and long-suffering when you are called by God... I also agree with the need for spiritual preparation before we get to His service. But I do think that sometimes 'staying under leadership' can do a person bad! If I had 'stayed under leadership' in submission, as you said, I would still be walking around kissing statues of saints, for example.. Mt 23:9: Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 1Jn 2:27: As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. Yes, learning is important, and listening to other people's opinion is also very important; it is true that only this way can we 'test our faith' (2Cor 13:5) - but nothing is worse than quenching the voice of the Holy Ghost for the sake of accepting some earthly teaching! We have to be careful not to judge the work of the Holy Spirit in another man, it is dangerous. We try to take out a mote from someone else's eye, but aren't we having a beam in our own? (Mt 7:3-5) I do realize the responsibility of being a 'minister' or 'ordained' and thorough study of God's Word is definitely required for His service. But in my opinion, no man has the authority to decide if God is calling another or not: it is a very personal issue, and it does happen at different times with different people. Maybe the called does not have the spiritual maturity right away, maybe he is even a 'blasphemer and persecutor' at the time he is called (1Tim 1:13), but I have no doubt that God's grace is enough to sustain anyone on his way... God teaches us humility and subjection in many different ways. One is actually to surrender to Him and forsake the opinion or approval of the world for His truth! If you are called, you are called and you must go... Even if it happens in your youth: "Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example of those who believe." 1Tim 4:12 There are false teachers in the world whom we should keep away from. We are not to 'tolerate fools gladly'! (2Cor 11:19) "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." 2Cor 11:14. But by studying God's Word, that becomes quite clear as well... We know the good tree from its good fruit. (Lk 6:43) Please do not misunderstand me, I am not questioning the authority of the church; but the authority of the church is not above the authority of Christ in any way! (Eph 5:23-24) Additionally, 'humbleness' (or 'humility') is the opposite of pride, it means believing you are not important (dictionary definition); 'submittance' and 'patience' are accepting other's decisions over you without grudging. None of those words reflect an attitude of mistrust towards the Holy Spirit within us... Paul says he 'humbled himself' so others may be exalted (2Cor 11:7).. Although he did accept persecution and suffering (humbleness, patience and submittance), never once did he say 'no' to his calling for the sake of obeying others (faith, trust, hope)! And we are to be imitators of him, according to 1Cor 4:16. In my opinion, we must 'allow' God to choose any man at any time for His service, no matter their age or academic background whatsoever! And the task of the church is to "Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions." (Romans 14:1). Yes, there is certainly a lot of pride in saying things like 'I am accountable to only God', but the task of the church or any group of believers is to teach God's Word and not to scare people away from it... Is trying to convince someone that he is not called -without Biblical reference- a proof of Christ dwelling in us? Constructive criticism would help a lot more! If anyone is unsure about ourfathersheart's calling, let us pray for him instead of judging a person we know nothing about! This dialogue seems to be going just wrong... Where is the peace Jesus left to us? (Jn 14:27) Also, may I ask: where does the Bible warn against being a 'lone ranger'? God bless you all, Zsuzsi |
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2 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | justme | 121806 | ||
Zsuzsi: I wish you had filled out your personal profile, as I would have some idea who I was addressing. I believe we have some basic theological differences, which are not worth dialoguing about because there are huge gaps in our understanding of what being called requires. I find it most interesting that several of you have answered about your feelings for "ourfathersheart" but this person has not responded himself. I wonder why that is? I will admit what is of concern for me, why do you and others stand behind and defend someone wanting to ordain and grant a degree to persons, that he is not legally or Spiritually authorized to do so? As for the "Lone Ranger Christian" let me elaborate. Where in Scripture do you find a Biblical New Testament leader working by themself? Not even Jesus ministered alone. I know there is a strong Biblical support for this basic principal. Might I suggest that Paul, in Romans 14:22 says "...Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves." Perhaps in ignorance, but you have approved of some very serious errors in "ourfathersheart's" response. As I do not know you Christian maturity, or age, or anything about you, I excuse your error in judgement and your response. For added imformation, by posting to me, your response does not automaticly mean anyone else will read it, except by chance they read this thread. I have attempted to be respectful, and kind. I sincerely hope the Lords blessing on you. justme |
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3 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | Zsuzsi | 121855 | ||
Hi Justme, Thank you for your response, it was respectful and kind indeed. Thank you for your blessing as well! I also think there are differences between your theology and mine... But as a 16-year-old I am really no-one to argue with someone as knowledgeable as you about such issues. I was so concerned with this issue since it is something very close to me. I have updated my personal profile, have a look if you are interested in knowing where I come from etc. For many years I myself felt invited by the Lord to get closer to Him, to live for/in/by/with Him. It's been a great struggle for me to discern if indeed it was His calling... I actually believe the question is not whether we are called but what we are called to do: "to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it." (Eph 4:7) In other words, God does not call the equipped, but equips the called. (Hebrews 13:20-21) According to my theology, being called and ordained by God does not require anything; being a 'minister' and legally ordained does require study and the approval of the church. I am young but my belief that I am called comes from many hundreds of hours of prayer, service and study, by now I know it is definitely not a temporary feeling or mere interest! Many Christians I have met from different denominations confirmed this... Thanks to a few supportive friends of mine, now I am learning Hebrew and Greek, systematic theology, counselling, missions theory, practical theology and church history. I am not yet qualified for earning a degree in theology,however, because as I said, I am only 16 and I have one more year of high school before I graduate. Although it is against the will of most people who have 'authority' over me, I will go through all that is needed to be properly 'ordained', for it is neither God's will nor mine to try to do it in any 'easy way'. I will pray, wait and study: right now I am too young and know little. But I am convinced of the calling and I know that I am already 'ordained' by God, who -I believe- possesses all authority to so 'ordain' anyone of His choice at any age. I have hope, faith and trust that the Holy Spirit is leading me; for the rest, "I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me." 1Cor 4:3-4 You wrote I was 'standing behind' and 'defending' ourfathersheart - but please have a look at my first response to him: I did not approve of him ordaining or giving degrees to others either; I actually said he had no authority to do so. I also suggested learning as a solution to his problem. (See the supporting passage I chose, and 2Tim 3:16-18) Could you please specify what 'serious errors' I approved of? Nevertheless I believe any Christian can intercede for others and to bless them, it cannot be against God's will. This person claimed to love the Lord, and I do not believe it is anyone else's job to decide if he was honest or not. What is our job is rather to help him into seeing what is good in God's sight and what is not... We are allowed to tell him that it is not biblical to ordain or give degrees to anyone without being authorized; we are allowed to warn against sin, pride or bigotry, and to make him understand the meaning of being called; but I do not think we can question the existence of a calling for a person who says 'I live only for Him'. Yes, maybe he is lying; but even so, it is not our job to execute judgment. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe certain gifts of the Holy Spirit are necessary for ministry; those who do not have them fail and get weary of it very quickly. My sincere belief is that only fulfilling our calling will please God and satisfy our soul; trying to do things which we are not called to do, or refusing to do things which we are called to do, may give a feeling of temporary pleasure, but in the long run, will make us dissatisfied with ourselves and with the world. Only when we are following our calling can we say: "I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your Law is within my heart." Psalm 40:8 Jesus said we would know the false prophets by their fruit (Mt 7:15-20); but false doctrines "promote controversies rather than God's work" (1Tim 1:4). Jesus clearly stated, though: "whoever is not against us is for us." (Mk 9:40) I also believe that whatever position we take up in church, we should remain servants of Christ, and not try to become lords of men. "For he who is least among [us] all – he is the greatest" Luke 9:48. Of course you do not have to agree with me. If you are interested, I can tell you more about my theology, and we can discuss our beliefs on different issues. I will post my views about 'lone rangers' in another thread. God bless you, and thanks again for your reply, Zsuzsi |
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4 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | Morant61 | 121871 | ||
Greetings Zsuzsi! I just read your profile! It is exciting to hear what God is doing in the life of young people. Keep up the good work and keep on being willing to be used and God will bless. I was six when God saved me, so I know what it is like to begin serving God at a young age. I preached my first sermon when I was about 13. Now, many years later, I am still serving Him! :-) Welcome to the forum! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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