Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How can we avoid deception? | 2 Thess 2:11 | srbaegon | 122692 | ||
Hello Aixen7z4, Your post is confusing. Your thesis that God can and does send spirits for harm to those who refuse Him. Yet you say: "One supposes that the Holy Spirit in us can resist and defeat Satan and any spirit he sends. But what will he do with the other spirits that have come from God?" If God the Holy Spirit is in us, why would God the Father send any other spirit to us? That makes no sense at all. Can you give scriptural support for a believer being sent a harmful spirit? Steve |
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2 | How can we avoid deception? | 2 Thess 2:11 | Aixen7z4 | 122697 | ||
If you are confused, then perhaps you should ponder the facts presented a little further. We have seen that the Lord does send delusions, an evil spirit, a lying spirit, he gives people over to a reprobate mind. It is apparent that he sends those to people who have refused to obey him. You can judge for yourself whether this ever applies to a believer. My point was that a person who refuses to believe the gospel is in real danger. He may hear another message at a later time and he may be deceived into thinking that it is the truth. It is so important that a person respond to the simple gospel without waiting for more. If he refuses to accept the gospel, how will he know that God will not be sending him strong delusions next? He may be looking for miracles and signs and wonders. He may be presented with lying signs and wonders. He may believe the message associated with those and think he is hearing the truth. He may be looking for a more convincing message and he may fall into the hands of a manipulator. He may be looking to have his emotions stirred and he may be so moved that he cannot think. If you are still confused, I suggest you think about it a little more. If a person hears the gospel (that Christ died for our sins and was buried and rose again) and if he refuses to obey the gospel (by repenting and trusting Christ) how can he know that the next thing he hears (accept Christ, accept a doctrinal statement, join the church, or whatever) is the truth. It may be a strong delusion and yet he will believe it. Read 2 Thess 2:9-12 and related passages such as 2 Timothy 4:3,4 again and think about it. |
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3 | How can we avoid deception? | 2 Thess 2:11 | srbaegon | 122719 | ||
Hello Aixen7z4, I am not confused about what scripture teaches. I was confused by your position as to the believer. I know for certain that believers are secure in Christ. You said: "You can judge for yourself whether this ever applies to a believer." I have judged for myself and know this will not happen. Steve |
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4 | How can we avoid deception? | 2 Thess 2:11 | Aixen7z4 | 122731 | ||
My dear friend, I agree with you that believers are secure in Christ. I understand that it is my post which was confusing to you. I think you said so very clearly. I have no reason to think that you are confused about what Scripture teaches, and I did not mean to suggest that you were. Now, please have patience with me, as I am exercising patience with you. The question was not whether a believer can lose his salvation. Rather it was whether a believer can be deceived, or deluded, or put to the test, or in some other way negatively influenced by a spirit other than the Holy Spirit sent to him by God. If you would like to think of this you might want to return to my first post and consider the cases that were cited. Consider what happened to Saul (1 Samuel 16:14). Consider what happened to Ahab (1 Kings 22:24). Consider what happened to David (2 Samuel 24:1). I asked you to judge for yourself whether this (God sending such a spirit) ever applies to a believer. This has nothing to do with a believer losing his salvation. At least, I am not suggesting that it does. You might want to consider that there are other unfortunate things that can happen to a believer even if, as you have rightly noted, he does not lose his salvation. You might want to think of 1 Timothy 1:19 where Paul speaks of some who, having put away concerning faith, have made shipwreck. You might want to think of 1 Timothy 4 where some depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron. You might want to consider Galatians 1:6 where Paul says, “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel”. You might want to think of Jeremiah 2:13 where God says that his people had committed two evils; they had forsaken him, the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. You might want to think of 1 Timothy 6:9 where believers who want to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts. I am not saying that any of these are due to a spirit from God. I am saying that bad things can happen to believers even though, as you have rightly stated, they do not lose their salvation. Please consider that bad things happened to David and the others, even though Scripture does not suggest that they lost their salvation. I have written at length again to try to clear up any confusion. If you are still confused, I suggest you do not waste time commenting on the clarity or lack thereof in my expression. Perhaps you can just think about what I have said and if you cannot make anything of it, then move on to another matter. My real concern is for those who refused to accept and obey the gospel. Is it possible that God sends them strong delusions after that? Is it possible that they will later accept something that they perceive as the gospel but is really a lie. That is the situation suggested in the 2 Thessalonians 2 passage. I joined this discussion because I share the concern that Mommapbs expressed at the top of the thread. I am concerned that we believers can be deceived and can stray away from our service for God when we have failed to live in the light of God’s revealed truth. Also, I see that many people can believe they are saved when they are not, because they refused to believe the gospel when they heard it and later believed something else that they thought was the gospel but was not. I would love to see a discussion on those two points. First: Can it be that a believer will not endure sound doctrine? What happens to him then? (See 2 Timothy 4:3,4). Can this situation be connected to the shipwreck mentioned in1Timothy 1:19? Second: What happens when a person refuses to accept the Gospel? Can it be that he is then allowed to think that something else is the gospel? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:10,11). If they believe a false gospel, won’t they be believing they are saved when they are not? |
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5 | How can we avoid deception? | 2 Thess 2:11 | srbaegon | 122814 | ||
Hello Aixen7z4, "The question was not whether a believer can lose his salvation." My comment was that a believer was secure in Christ meaning that he does not have to worry about God sending a deceiving spirit upon him. "Rather it was whether a believer can be deceived, or deluded, or put to the test, or in some other way negatively influenced by a spirit other than the Holy Spirit sent to him by God." To this I answer it is possible for a believer to be negatively influenced by another person and not a spirit as in Ahab and Saul. "First: Can it be that a believer will not endure sound doctrine? What happens to him then? (See 2 Timothy 4:3,4). Can this situation be connected to the shipwreck mentioned in 1Timothy 1:19?" Yes. I think you have it. "Second: What happens when a person refuses to accept the Gospel? Can it be that he is then allowed to think that something else is the gospel? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:10,11). If they believe a false gospel, won’t they be believing they are saved when they are not?" Yes, again. Steve |
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