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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | explain Kenosis | Phil 2:7 | CDBJ | 109520 | ||
Greetings mommapbs, I have always thought that while Christ was here on earth, to redeem man, that he didn’t exhibit all of the attributes of God. A good example of this I think would be the following. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. CDBJ |
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2 | explain Kenosis | Phil 2:7 | Ray | 109537 | ||
Hi CDBJ, I see these verses as showing a comparison and contrast of the Persons. But it also shows how the two Persons are glorified together. The comparison I see is: "neither the Son, but the Father" with "together with Thyself, Father". That is the glory that He had before the world was. That is the glory He set aside while He came to earth. I observe two things that would be important in a study of these passages. The first one is in John 17:1 where our manuscripts offer the choice of "the Son" or "Your Son" may glorify Thee. The other thing to consider is the order of the pronouns in John 17:5. That will determine how we compare the Son along with or together with the Father alone. In other words, our choices are: John 17:5, KJ, "And now, O Father, glorify (thou) **me with *thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." Six pronouns of Deity. John 17:5, NASB, "And now, glorify Thou (Me) together with **Thyself, *Father, with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was." Six pronouns of Deity. John 17:4, NKJ, "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. [One extra pronoun] 5 And now, O (Father), glorify **Me together with *Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." Only five pronouns of Deity. Mark 13:31, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but (My) words will not pass away. But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the **Son, but the *Father alone." John 17:8, "for the words which Thou gavest Me (I) have given to them; and they received them, and truly understood that **I came forth from *Thee,..." I hope that everyone sees that the Son came forth from the Father. He left the glory that was with the Father Himself. He manifested the Father's name. Right now I would go with the NKJ for John 17:4,5. Did any of these comparisons make sense? From the heart, Ray |
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3 | explain Kenosis | Phil 2:7 | Mommapbs | 109578 | ||
Greetings Ray, thanks for your insight. You wrote: "He left the glory that was with the Father Himself." I'm wondering if the songwriter of "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" was addressing this element of our faith when he wrote: "veiled in flesh, the Godhead see, hail the Incarnate Deity." Did Jesus "leave" His glory or did God veil it in the flesh of humanity? Could the Transfiguration of Jesus be part of understanding His glory - the glory that He HAD (meaning, not past tense but what He possessed in essence)? I commend www.kenosis.info to you as a good discussion to consider more on this topic. The author lists some heretical views that can spring from an improper understanding. As I ponder this, I see that a proper understanding of WHO Jesus IS, must be a primary element for the believer. May we come to exclaim, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28) Blessings, mommapbs |
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